Conti shift workers -"bodyclock"- wasting my days off sleep
Discussion
Morning all,
I say morning, I realise its passed 11am, but I have just woken up.
Towards the end of last year I started a new job, my first working shifts. It's a continental shift partern, 2 12 hour days, 2 12 hour nights (both 7-7), then 4 days off.
When I first started this job I was fine with sleep. I would go to bed around 10pm when I was on day shift and wake at 530am. On the nights, I would sleep while about 2pm then stay awake until I got home the next morning.
What I'm finding now, is that I just want to sleep all the time. I can't concentrate on doing much at all, and waking up in the morning is a pain in the arse. Today, yesterday and the day before I've had alarms set at 830am and 9am, but I've got into a terrible habit of simply switching the alarm off and going back to sleep. Even when I did get out of bed at around 11, it wad a struggle. I felt knackered, and that was after a good 9 hour sleep or so.
I wondered if there was any science behind the whole "bodyclock" theory, and if any other shift workers can help me out.
I like my job, but feeling tired almost constantly sucks. The worst bit is, my gym regime is near inexistent nowadays. That's another thing I'm finding it impossible to get into a routine with.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Cheers
Dan
I say morning, I realise its passed 11am, but I have just woken up.
Towards the end of last year I started a new job, my first working shifts. It's a continental shift partern, 2 12 hour days, 2 12 hour nights (both 7-7), then 4 days off.
When I first started this job I was fine with sleep. I would go to bed around 10pm when I was on day shift and wake at 530am. On the nights, I would sleep while about 2pm then stay awake until I got home the next morning.
What I'm finding now, is that I just want to sleep all the time. I can't concentrate on doing much at all, and waking up in the morning is a pain in the arse. Today, yesterday and the day before I've had alarms set at 830am and 9am, but I've got into a terrible habit of simply switching the alarm off and going back to sleep. Even when I did get out of bed at around 11, it wad a struggle. I felt knackered, and that was after a good 9 hour sleep or so.
I wondered if there was any science behind the whole "bodyclock" theory, and if any other shift workers can help me out.
I like my job, but feeling tired almost constantly sucks. The worst bit is, my gym regime is near inexistent nowadays. That's another thing I'm finding it impossible to get into a routine with.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Cheers
Dan
I dont think you ever really get used to it just try to manage it as best you can. Everyones needs are different but i do a similar pattern and find i manage best by sleeping for around 4 hours after a 12 hour nightshift.
I sometimes do power nap in the afternoons but i generally feel better for getting up and doing something constructive instead of vegging out in front of crap tv!
Luckily i do the same 2 days 2 nights split so i find it easier than a 4 on 4 off pattern.
I sometimes do power nap in the afternoons but i generally feel better for getting up and doing something constructive instead of vegging out in front of crap tv!
Luckily i do the same 2 days 2 nights split so i find it easier than a 4 on 4 off pattern.
Edited by ch427 on Thursday 19th February 20:15
I do the same shifts and this is my sleep pattern.
I go to bed 22:00 to 22:30 every night regardless of days off or dayshift.
Get up at 06:00 for dayshifts and in bed by 22:30.
On my first nightshift, i get up at normal morning time(usually around 07:30-08:00) and then stay awake until after nightshift next day (so usually about 24hrs awake)
From work go straight to bed and sleep until around 1pm then get up and do nightshift and repeat the same again.
After last nightshift I wake up whenever then go to bed at 22:00 to 22:30 and sleep through.
Next morning I'm back to normal sleeping/waking hours.
That works for me but may not suit your lifestyle/sleep needs/etc
I always try and get back to normal hours ASAP so I can get on with my life.
When much younger I could sleep the clock around and once slept 11.5 hrs between nightshifts. Can't do that now.
Having worked 12 hr days/nights for more than 25 years, my body clock is pretty screwed so I just do whatever I need to get through the day and get on with things.
I go to bed 22:00 to 22:30 every night regardless of days off or dayshift.
Get up at 06:00 for dayshifts and in bed by 22:30.
On my first nightshift, i get up at normal morning time(usually around 07:30-08:00) and then stay awake until after nightshift next day (so usually about 24hrs awake)
From work go straight to bed and sleep until around 1pm then get up and do nightshift and repeat the same again.
After last nightshift I wake up whenever then go to bed at 22:00 to 22:30 and sleep through.
Next morning I'm back to normal sleeping/waking hours.
That works for me but may not suit your lifestyle/sleep needs/etc
I always try and get back to normal hours ASAP so I can get on with my life.
When much younger I could sleep the clock around and once slept 11.5 hrs between nightshifts. Can't do that now.
Having worked 12 hr days/nights for more than 25 years, my body clock is pretty screwed so I just do whatever I need to get through the day and get on with things.
Z4monster said:
On my first nightshift, i get up at normal morning time(usually around 07:30-08:00) and then stay awake until after nightshift next day (so usually about 24hrs awake)
Same here, except I do 2x nights then 2x days, sleeping in before my first night shift feels like wasting my days off. Swing day in the middle's always a bit fuzzy thoughI worked shifts for 3 years, it just did not suit me.
Shifts made me constantly tired, apathetic and prone to infections whereas in my previous job I was healthy and full of energy. I still feel the effects 15 years later, if I don't go to straight to sleep when tiredness hits me at night then I am awake all night.
Evidence suggests that shift work is bad for you long term, I don't know about that but IME it was bad for me immediately.
I swapped to shift work to earn more but I ended up turning down triple rate Sunday overtime as I was just too knackered to cope.
OP if you want to cut short your sleep time then I would suggest drinking plenty of water before you go to bed, your bladder will wake you better than any alarm clock.
Shifts made me constantly tired, apathetic and prone to infections whereas in my previous job I was healthy and full of energy. I still feel the effects 15 years later, if I don't go to straight to sleep when tiredness hits me at night then I am awake all night.
Evidence suggests that shift work is bad for you long term, I don't know about that but IME it was bad for me immediately.
I swapped to shift work to earn more but I ended up turning down triple rate Sunday overtime as I was just too knackered to cope.
OP if you want to cut short your sleep time then I would suggest drinking plenty of water before you go to bed, your bladder will wake you better than any alarm clock.
WTF? 2x 12hr nights then swing to 2x 12hr days? Presumably the HR drone that came up with this hates workers and their employer and wants the workers unhealthy and unproductive? 4 nights/4 off/4 days/4 off would make a lot more sense and might actually avoid killing the employees or driving them insane. Swing shifts suck, but this rota must be killing you.
hidetheelephants said:
WTF? 2x 12hr nights then swing to 2x 12hr days? Presumably the HR drone that came up with this hates workers and their employer and wants the workers unhealthy and unproductive? 4 nights/4 off/4 days/4 off would make a lot more sense and might actually avoid killing the employees or driving them insane. Swing shifts suck, but this rota must be killing you.
It's a fairly common one in the military. I've done the same as the OP also with days first then nights. Have also done what you suggest (but 3on/3off), and some other really random ones with normal days and training etc. rota'd in. The worst I found was 7x 8 hour nights (11pm-7am) as when finishing the string I was properly adjusted to nights and it took a good few days to readjust. Z4monster said:
On my first nightshift, i get up at normal morning time(usually around 07:30-08:00) and then stay awake until after nightshift next day (so usually about 24hrs awake)
From work go straight to bed and sleep until around 1pm then get up and do nightshift and repeat the same again.
Not sleeping in 24 hours has to be bad for you. Then you are only getting, what, 5 hours sleep after that per 24 hours....?From work go straight to bed and sleep until around 1pm then get up and do nightshift and repeat the same again.
I work shifts. When going onto nights, I go to bed the normal time the night before and get up at a decent time, <7am. Then go back to bed maybe 2pm and have 3 hours until 5pm.
After the shift, I sleep though to about noon. If I have another night shift to do, back in bed by 2ish.
This way I get approx 8 hours sleep in each 24 hours. Works for me, and I don't normally feel too bad.
Personally, I don't think it is shifts as such that screw people up, it is lack of sleep.
I did a rotating shift for a couple of years Monday to Friday which looked like this:
Week 1 - 6am - 2pm
Week 2 - 2pm - 10pm
Week 3 - 10pm - 6am
There are all sorts of health studies out there that show the negative effects.
I used to go to sleep then wake up an hour later, look at the clock and wouldn't have a clue if it was 3am or 3pm. a couple of times I nearly went back into the factory thinking I had overslept when I'd only just gone to bed. It used to really affect my mood sometimes as well.
I used to cycle to work though which would wake me up. Problem is, come home time when I was ready for bed the cycle ride back would get me fully awake again.
I've heard that some people have had success with those alarm clocks that simulate sunrise?
Week 1 - 6am - 2pm
Week 2 - 2pm - 10pm
Week 3 - 10pm - 6am
There are all sorts of health studies out there that show the negative effects.
I used to go to sleep then wake up an hour later, look at the clock and wouldn't have a clue if it was 3am or 3pm. a couple of times I nearly went back into the factory thinking I had overslept when I'd only just gone to bed. It used to really affect my mood sometimes as well.
I used to cycle to work though which would wake me up. Problem is, come home time when I was ready for bed the cycle ride back would get me fully awake again.
I've heard that some people have had success with those alarm clocks that simulate sunrise?
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Sorry, I forgot I'd posted this. 
Last week I tried the suggestion of getting up at a normal time on a swing shift, and spent most of the day generally getting a lot done at home, something that I was unable to do previously. I found the nightshift to be a bit harder towards the end of the night but nothing unbearable. Swing shift tomorrow so I'll be doing the same and reporting back.
One thing that I've been researching this week is the feeling of tiredness and where it comes from, well, I've been trying to research it but I keep falling asleep.
Just kidding but I'm finding studying for exams at work to be difficult due to feeling knackered at an almost constant. One of my friends has suggested I might not be getting enough Iron in my diet, another suggested diabetes (how likely is that?). I'll go to the doctors when I can but I never seem to get anywhere with them. For the low price I might order some iron supplements and some multi vits and see if they help any. Even a placebo kick up the arse would be lovely.
Dan
Last week I tried the suggestion of getting up at a normal time on a swing shift, and spent most of the day generally getting a lot done at home, something that I was unable to do previously. I found the nightshift to be a bit harder towards the end of the night but nothing unbearable. Swing shift tomorrow so I'll be doing the same and reporting back.
One thing that I've been researching this week is the feeling of tiredness and where it comes from, well, I've been trying to research it but I keep falling asleep.
Just kidding but I'm finding studying for exams at work to be difficult due to feeling knackered at an almost constant. One of my friends has suggested I might not be getting enough Iron in my diet, another suggested diabetes (how likely is that?). I'll go to the doctors when I can but I never seem to get anywhere with them. For the low price I might order some iron supplements and some multi vits and see if they help any. Even a placebo kick up the arse would be lovely.
Dan
I do this shift pattern too Dan.
Routine and diet play a huge part, as does excercise.
The only bit I really struggle with normally is going to bed early on my last day off so normally the first day shift is a bit of a knackered blur.
Anyway, my routine is much the same as one of the previous posters
1st 2 day shifts , always in bed 10-10.30pm and awake the next morning at 5 (gives me time for a shower, breakfast and an leisurely drive in.
on day 3 I get up a little later maybe 7.30 or 8am. Spend the day doing stuff around the house, getting some fresh air and excercise and treating it as a normal day off. At 5pm I make a bit of light food to take into work and leave for work about 5.30pm
Following day, get home in bed and asleep in seconds. Set alarm to force myself up by 1pm.
After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am. This way you get a whole day to do stuff and you're knackered by night time ready for a normal nights sleep again.
You do miss out on a fair bit of sleep overall this way and every 3 or 4 weeks I'll have a day where I need a recharge and spend the day sleeping or dozing in front of the telly.
The other thing I find really helps is a mid Night shift break. Depends on the job you do but me and my partner on shift take a 45 min break completely away from work and leave the other on to deal with everything. I normally go an relax in my car with the radio on or find a quiet spot for a 20 min snooze.
I'm well past 40 now and find it a little harder than in my 20's but shift work (especially nights) really do not do you any good health wise at all. Best you can do is find a routine that works and aim to ditch the nights as soon as you can afford it and the job allows it.
Routine and diet play a huge part, as does excercise.
The only bit I really struggle with normally is going to bed early on my last day off so normally the first day shift is a bit of a knackered blur.
Anyway, my routine is much the same as one of the previous posters
1st 2 day shifts , always in bed 10-10.30pm and awake the next morning at 5 (gives me time for a shower, breakfast and an leisurely drive in.
on day 3 I get up a little later maybe 7.30 or 8am. Spend the day doing stuff around the house, getting some fresh air and excercise and treating it as a normal day off. At 5pm I make a bit of light food to take into work and leave for work about 5.30pm
Following day, get home in bed and asleep in seconds. Set alarm to force myself up by 1pm.
After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am. This way you get a whole day to do stuff and you're knackered by night time ready for a normal nights sleep again.
You do miss out on a fair bit of sleep overall this way and every 3 or 4 weeks I'll have a day where I need a recharge and spend the day sleeping or dozing in front of the telly.
The other thing I find really helps is a mid Night shift break. Depends on the job you do but me and my partner on shift take a 45 min break completely away from work and leave the other on to deal with everything. I normally go an relax in my car with the radio on or find a quiet spot for a 20 min snooze.
I'm well past 40 now and find it a little harder than in my 20's but shift work (especially nights) really do not do you any good health wise at all. Best you can do is find a routine that works and aim to ditch the nights as soon as you can afford it and the job allows it.
I've done a variety of shift patterns over the last 13 years -
6 on (2 earlies, 2 lates, 2 nights), 4 off
4 on 4 off (2 x 12hr earlies and then 2 x 12hr nights)
6 on, 3 off (3 earlies/3nights, 3 off then 3 days/3 lates, 3 off)
3 on, 2 off (3 earlies, 2 off, 3 lates, 2 off, 3 nights, 2 off)
And my current one which even after 3 years I cant fathom - a mixture of 8 or 9 hour shifts / either 4, 5 or 6 days in followed by 3 or 4 days off)
By far the best pattern for me was the 4 on 4 off, although the 6 on 4 off was also a great one. All the others are crap and mess your body clock up.
For me on earlies I will normally go to bed at about 10pm, and be up at 5. THe day before my night shift I will stay up as late as possible and then sleep in as late as possible (when I wake up I struggle to get back to sleep). I may then also have a nap in the afternoon. For my rest days I will normally only have 4 hours sleep off nights then get up and power through the day, normally getting an early-ish night. Tends to work for me.
Sent while on my last of 3 night shifts (and 3 x late shifts before hand) before 4 days off!!
6 on (2 earlies, 2 lates, 2 nights), 4 off
4 on 4 off (2 x 12hr earlies and then 2 x 12hr nights)
6 on, 3 off (3 earlies/3nights, 3 off then 3 days/3 lates, 3 off)
3 on, 2 off (3 earlies, 2 off, 3 lates, 2 off, 3 nights, 2 off)
And my current one which even after 3 years I cant fathom - a mixture of 8 or 9 hour shifts / either 4, 5 or 6 days in followed by 3 or 4 days off)
By far the best pattern for me was the 4 on 4 off, although the 6 on 4 off was also a great one. All the others are crap and mess your body clock up.
For me on earlies I will normally go to bed at about 10pm, and be up at 5. THe day before my night shift I will stay up as late as possible and then sleep in as late as possible (when I wake up I struggle to get back to sleep). I may then also have a nap in the afternoon. For my rest days I will normally only have 4 hours sleep off nights then get up and power through the day, normally getting an early-ish night. Tends to work for me.
Sent while on my last of 3 night shifts (and 3 x late shifts before hand) before 4 days off!!
Blaster72 said:
Following day, get home in bed and asleep in seconds. Set alarm to force myself up by 1pm.
After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am.
Got to ask, why?After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am.
If you are on days, do you go home in the evening, go to sleep then force yourself out of bed at one in the morning (or even worse at eleven pm), stay up all night, then go and do a full day shift? Of course you don't. So why do it on nights?
You should listen to your body. It needs sleep. When on nights, I go to bed when I get in after a bit of breakfast and set the alarm for 5pm and sleep right through if my body needs it. I do sometimes get up mid day if I wake naturally but I will always go back to bed.
IMHO it is very unhealthy to not get your usual amount of sleep (say 8 hours) in every a 24 block. I'm amazed by the amount of people who stay awake through choice for 24 hours straight at the start of a run of night shifts.
I work the same shift. Unfortunately, I'm a rampant insomniac and only sleep for 3hrs max after nights. I try and doze in the afternoon prior to nights starting. After 20 years, I just write the 4 days/night I'm working off completely. Tiredness is just something I live with. There are many reports that working nights takes years off your life. I can believe it.
JumboBeef said:
Blaster72 said:
Following day, get home in bed and asleep in seconds. Set alarm to force myself up by 1pm.
After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am.
Got to ask, why?After the last night shift if I have nothing planned I'll still set an alarm to force myself out of bed by 11am.
If you are on days, do you go home in the evening, go to sleep then force yourself out of bed at one in the morning (or even worse at eleven pm), stay up all night, then go and do a full day shift? Of course you don't. So why do it on nights?
You should listen to your body. It needs sleep. When on nights, I go to bed when I get in after a bit of breakfast and set the alarm for 5pm and sleep right through if my body needs it. I do sometimes get up mid day if I wake naturally but I will always go back to bed.
IMHO it is very unhealthy to not get your usual amount of sleep (say 8 hours) in every a 24 block. I'm amazed by the amount of people who stay awake through choice for 24 hours straight at the start of a run of night shifts.
I've done the best part of 25 years on shift work, at least ten years of those were permanent nights. I've tried everything and sleeping through to 5pm just doesn't happen (used to in my early 20s).
As you say, listen to your body and find a routine that suits but be aware of the dangers to your health that nights cause regardless of your personal routine. In the last 2 years 3 of my colleagues in their early 50s have died of sudden heart failure. I knows its a bit of a danger age anyway but I'd not be surprised to find night working contributed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25812422
I followed that link and the links in that page. It pretty much says what I said up there, it isn't so much the shift working that kills you, it is the lack of sleep caused by shift working. Because of this I really try to get 8 hours sleep in a 24 hour block. Staying awake for 24 hours straight is very unhealthy.
I work 2x12 hour days and 2x12 hour nights and Ilove the shift pattern. I've worked it for years. I tend to sleep from 10.30-6am before the day shifts. Then get up at 7am between days and nights (this allows the wife to have a lie in and I entertain our 3 year old!). I then sleep 1-4 in the afternoon before nights. Between nights I sleep 8-4. After the last shift I'll sleep 8-12.30. It works well for me. I think the people that struggle are the ones who cannot sleep during the day. The tiredness is then emphasised during the night.
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