It's been tough keeping an aquarium
Discussion
I seem to be getting though a lot of fish since I took up this hobby 
It's been quite a tale of woe. I have a Love Fish 64L Panorama tank with a Fluval 106 external cannister filter which has been set up for about 6 months now.
I used Fluval Cycle to help start the tank up and introduced a platy a week later. I tested the water with the API kit and it tested fine. Another week and I put in 6 tiny Endler guppies, all male. The water still testing ok and I was going to wait longer before introducing more fish, but the endlers kept trying to mate with the platy and was chasing her all over the place. I put in two female guppies, but they were still mainly interested in the female platy. I started having water quality issues at this point and had to do daily changes and started using Tetra SafeStart to keep ammonia and nitrate down. I also used aquarium salt to help negate any affects from ammonia.
The endlers were still so bothersome to all the other fish, I ended up returning three of them and swapping them for a female platy. Finally there was peace in the tank and the cycle had fully completed at last! A couple of days later the most recently purchased female guppy died after having her fins clamped for 3 days. I replaced the guppy with a German Blue Ram.
At this point I reduced (and still do) the water changes to 25% weekly. Ammonia and nitrite are always zero. Nitrates stay at around 40ppm which is the same as what my water tests at straight from the tap. PH of 8.0.
A few weeks later I took a weeks holiday abroad. I left a dissolving food tablet on the bottom and a soft food ring stuck on the side of the tank near the top as a back up. I returned home to fine about half the ring eaten and the tablet mostly gone, and the three endlers had completely disappeared. I never found them. I assume they did not eat the food, but it said on the packet that it was suitable for very small fish.
All was well for a couple of months, but the Ram started getting less active. Lost a guppy suddenly. It did not seem to have any symptoms. I replaced it with a Dwarf Gourami.
The second platy developed a brown lump on its side near the tale. I did not treat it because after research it could have been any number of issues with different treatments and I did not want to put medication in the tank which had a good chance of being the wrong medication. Meanwhile the ram started eating less and over time seemed to get smaller....then after another month, it died. Lots of people report their rams dying after 6 month or so of keeping them, so I put it down to bad breeding and them being not a very hardy fish.
I bought 6 Ornate tetras since I did not have any schooling fish. All was well for about 5 weeks then I lost a female platy. The first fish I bought.
I found a baby platy in the tank. I had seen fry before, but this one looks to have got to the point where it is a proper little fish.
This brings up up to two weeks ago when the tank was stocked with 6 ornate tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 platy and 1 tiny platy. I bought 6 marbled hatchet fish which would bring the tank up to 100% stocked for the first time according to the aqadvisor website.
A couple of days later the platy started flashing so I added aquarium salt. The following weekend I did the normal 25% water change, but did not add any salt back in. After about three days of swimming around with clamped fins it died.
Friday evening one of the hatchet fish died. After having two deaths so close together, I had a close look at them and all fish had symptoms of ich (white spot), loads of it!
I did not see the spots before because I stopped using the aquarium lights a while back when I replaced my live plants with plastic ones since they kept dying and getting caught in the filter intake so there did not seem any point putting the lights on. Plus the tetras get a bit scared of the lights. With the lights on the spots are really noticeable, but almost invisible with them off.
I dosed the tank with King British WS3 yesterday and raised the temperature to 82 degrees Fahrenheit from 75 degrees. I raised the temp slowly over the course of the day. I lost two tetras yesterday, one more overnight and one today. The remaining two are listless on the bottom. Gourami and baby platy seem ok. They have very few spots on them. The 5 remaining hatchet fish fins have quite a lot of spots and the fins have gone ragged.
I am not sure what to do now. The tetras only started dying since I added the medication, so maybe it is too toxic for them, but it could be the white spot....I just don't know! The tetras had a lot more spots on them than the other fish.
Should this really be so hard? Have other people had a similar experience or have I been unlucky? I know I have made lots of mistakes, but the water quality has always been good. I feed them on Hikari Tropical Micro Pellets and Tetramin flakes on alternate days and cooked peas weekly or fortnightly. The fish have been bought from a variety of aquatic shops, pet shops and the usual big chain.
When the ich parasites are dead I intend to re-stock the tank, so I would appreciate it if anyone has any advice to stop this happening again. So far, under my care I have lost 3 endlers, 2 guppies, 2 platys, 1 ram, 4 tetras and 1 hatchet fish I expect to lose at least the last 2 tetras before the ich is gone and probably a few more hatchet fish.
Thanks for reading this lengthily post!
It's been quite a tale of woe. I have a Love Fish 64L Panorama tank with a Fluval 106 external cannister filter which has been set up for about 6 months now.I used Fluval Cycle to help start the tank up and introduced a platy a week later. I tested the water with the API kit and it tested fine. Another week and I put in 6 tiny Endler guppies, all male. The water still testing ok and I was going to wait longer before introducing more fish, but the endlers kept trying to mate with the platy and was chasing her all over the place. I put in two female guppies, but they were still mainly interested in the female platy. I started having water quality issues at this point and had to do daily changes and started using Tetra SafeStart to keep ammonia and nitrate down. I also used aquarium salt to help negate any affects from ammonia.
The endlers were still so bothersome to all the other fish, I ended up returning three of them and swapping them for a female platy. Finally there was peace in the tank and the cycle had fully completed at last! A couple of days later the most recently purchased female guppy died after having her fins clamped for 3 days. I replaced the guppy with a German Blue Ram.
At this point I reduced (and still do) the water changes to 25% weekly. Ammonia and nitrite are always zero. Nitrates stay at around 40ppm which is the same as what my water tests at straight from the tap. PH of 8.0.
A few weeks later I took a weeks holiday abroad. I left a dissolving food tablet on the bottom and a soft food ring stuck on the side of the tank near the top as a back up. I returned home to fine about half the ring eaten and the tablet mostly gone, and the three endlers had completely disappeared. I never found them. I assume they did not eat the food, but it said on the packet that it was suitable for very small fish.
All was well for a couple of months, but the Ram started getting less active. Lost a guppy suddenly. It did not seem to have any symptoms. I replaced it with a Dwarf Gourami.
The second platy developed a brown lump on its side near the tale. I did not treat it because after research it could have been any number of issues with different treatments and I did not want to put medication in the tank which had a good chance of being the wrong medication. Meanwhile the ram started eating less and over time seemed to get smaller....then after another month, it died. Lots of people report their rams dying after 6 month or so of keeping them, so I put it down to bad breeding and them being not a very hardy fish.
I bought 6 Ornate tetras since I did not have any schooling fish. All was well for about 5 weeks then I lost a female platy. The first fish I bought.
I found a baby platy in the tank. I had seen fry before, but this one looks to have got to the point where it is a proper little fish.
This brings up up to two weeks ago when the tank was stocked with 6 ornate tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 platy and 1 tiny platy. I bought 6 marbled hatchet fish which would bring the tank up to 100% stocked for the first time according to the aqadvisor website.
A couple of days later the platy started flashing so I added aquarium salt. The following weekend I did the normal 25% water change, but did not add any salt back in. After about three days of swimming around with clamped fins it died.
Friday evening one of the hatchet fish died. After having two deaths so close together, I had a close look at them and all fish had symptoms of ich (white spot), loads of it!
I did not see the spots before because I stopped using the aquarium lights a while back when I replaced my live plants with plastic ones since they kept dying and getting caught in the filter intake so there did not seem any point putting the lights on. Plus the tetras get a bit scared of the lights. With the lights on the spots are really noticeable, but almost invisible with them off.
I dosed the tank with King British WS3 yesterday and raised the temperature to 82 degrees Fahrenheit from 75 degrees. I raised the temp slowly over the course of the day. I lost two tetras yesterday, one more overnight and one today. The remaining two are listless on the bottom. Gourami and baby platy seem ok. They have very few spots on them. The 5 remaining hatchet fish fins have quite a lot of spots and the fins have gone ragged.
I am not sure what to do now. The tetras only started dying since I added the medication, so maybe it is too toxic for them, but it could be the white spot....I just don't know! The tetras had a lot more spots on them than the other fish.
Should this really be so hard? Have other people had a similar experience or have I been unlucky? I know I have made lots of mistakes, but the water quality has always been good. I feed them on Hikari Tropical Micro Pellets and Tetramin flakes on alternate days and cooked peas weekly or fortnightly. The fish have been bought from a variety of aquatic shops, pet shops and the usual big chain.
When the ich parasites are dead I intend to re-stock the tank, so I would appreciate it if anyone has any advice to stop this happening again. So far, under my care I have lost 3 endlers, 2 guppies, 2 platys, 1 ram, 4 tetras and 1 hatchet fish
I expect to lose at least the last 2 tetras before the ich is gone and probably a few more hatchet fish.Thanks for reading this lengthily post!
wow, quite a tale of woe, some of your own doing, some I suspect, as bad advice from your LFS.
i'll try and answer your main questions, point by point.
ds, and will try to mate at every opportunity. You should be doing big water changes at this point. around 20%, using a fish safe dechlorinator. Chlorine will kill all bacteria, even your good bacteria, and is present in tap water. Mix slome of this stuff in with normal tap water and wait around an hour before changing your water.
2- you are feeding them too much. The food they do not eat simply rots at the bottom of the tank, this increases the nasties, ammonia, nitrate, niterite. Feed once every other day, stick with the flakes.
3- DO NOT BUY ANY MORE FISH! This is your opportunity to undo all of the mistakes and bad advice! Read up on fishless and fish in cycling, and follow the advice to the letter, and the advice in this post. Make sure the white spot has is fully cured before you buy any more fish. If you do not have any fish left in the tank, you should really do fishless cycling. If you do have a fish left, do regular water changes, as described in this post, and online.
to answer your question, "should it really be this hard?" the answer is no. It shouldnt. But those early mistakes have cost you dear. Keeping a tank is a wonderful, relaxing thing to have, and it only gets difficult when you start looking after more complex, sensitive fish. If you must buy more fish, but something VERY hardy, like Zebra danios. Stay away from neon tetras, very pretty fish but very sensitive to their environment, its best to add these after 6 weeks or so of the tank being fully established. Good luck!
i'll try and answer your main questions, point by point.
AlexC1981 said:
I used Fluval Cycle to help start the tank up and introduced a platy a week later. I tested the water with the API kit and it tested fine. Another week and I put in 6 tiny Endler guppies, all male.
Too much, too soon. It is not unknown for a tank to take two months to be full established, without even putting any fish in! Your filter would not have had enough time for your bacteria to multiply to deal with all the nasties fush produce. Good shout with the tetra safe start, but because of the volume of fish, it may not be enough. Remember, companies, even Tetra, are in it to make money, the quickest way to do that is to give bad advice on cycling a tank. Google fishless cycling, and cycling with fish. AlexC1981 said:
The water still testing ok and I was going to wait longer before introducing more fish, but the endlers kept trying to mate with the platy and was chasing her all over the place. I put in two female guppies, but they were still mainly interested in the female platy. I started having water quality issues at this point and had to do daily changes and started using Tetra SafeStart to keep ammonia and nitrate down. I also used aquarium salt to help negate any affects from ammonia.
See above, too much too soon. Guppies are horny bds, and will try to mate at every opportunity. You should be doing big water changes at this point. around 20%, using a fish safe dechlorinator. Chlorine will kill all bacteria, even your good bacteria, and is present in tap water. Mix slome of this stuff in with normal tap water and wait around an hour before changing your water. AlexC1981 said:
The endlers were still so bothersome to all the other fish, I ended up returning three of them and swapping them for a female platy. Finally there was peace in the tank and the cycle had fully completed at last! A couple of days later the most recently purchased female guppy died after having her fins clamped for 3 days. I replaced the guppy with a German Blue Ram.
At this point I reduced (and still do) the water changes to 25% weekly. Ammonia and nitrite are always zero. Nitrates stay at around 40ppm which is the same as what my water tests at straight from the tap. PH of 8.0.
Get yourself a chemical water tester, some produce results of zero, but, as you are experiencing that can be misleading. And one water change per week is too little. Should be doing once every three days, especially as the tank did not have time to fully establish with fishless cycling. At this point I reduced (and still do) the water changes to 25% weekly. Ammonia and nitrite are always zero. Nitrates stay at around 40ppm which is the same as what my water tests at straight from the tap. PH of 8.0.
AlexC1981 said:
A few weeks later I took a weeks holiday abroad. I left a dissolving food tablet on the bottom and a soft food ring stuck on the side of the tank near the top as a back up. I returned home to fine about half the ring eaten and the tablet mostly gone, and the three endlers had completely disappeared. I never found them. I assume they did not eat the food, but it said on the packet that it was suitable for very small fish.
if you are going on holiday for just a week or so, really dont bother with these feeder things. Again, they are a gimmick to make money. The fish wont starve if you just leave them. Give them a feed on the morning before you go, and then leave it. If anything, they will poop less, producing less nasties, and your tank will actually be beneficial for it. AlexC1981 said:
All was well for a couple of months, but the Ram started getting less active. Lost a guppy suddenly. It did not seem to have any symptoms. I replaced it with a Dwarf Gourami.
The second platy developed a brown lump on its side near the tale. I did not treat it because after research it could have been any number of issues with different treatments and I did not want to put medication in the tank which had a good chance of being the wrong medication. Meanwhile the ram started eating less and over time seemed to get smaller....then after another month, it died. Lots of people report their rams dying after 6 month or so of keeping them, so I put it down to bad breeding and them being not a very hardy fish.
I bought 6 Ornate tetras since I did not have any schooling fish. All was well for about 5 weeks then I lost a female platy. The first fish I bought.
I found a baby platy in the tank. I had seen fry before, but this one looks to have got to the point where it is a proper little fish.
This brings up up to two weeks ago when the tank was stocked with 6 ornate tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 platy and 1 tiny platy. I bought 6 marbled hatchet fish which would bring the tank up to 100% stocked for the first time according to the aqadvisor website.
A couple of days later the platy started flashing so I added aquarium salt. The following weekend I did the normal 25% water change, but did not add any salt back in. After about three days of swimming around with clamped fins it died.
Friday evening one of the hatchet fish died. After having two deaths so close together, I had a close look at them and all fish had symptoms of ich (white spot), loads of it!
I did not see the spots before because I stopped using the aquarium lights a while back when I replaced my live plants with plastic ones since they kept dying and getting caught in the filter intake so there did not seem any point putting the lights on. Plus the tetras get a bit scared of the lights. With the lights on the spots are really noticeable, but almost invisible with them off.
I dosed the tank with King British WS3 yesterday and raised the temperature to 82 degrees Fahrenheit from 75 degrees. I raised the temp slowly over the course of the day. I lost two tetras yesterday, one more overnight and one today. The remaining two are listless on the bottom. Gourami and baby platy seem ok. They have very few spots on them. The 5 remaining hatchet fish fins have quite a lot of spots and the fins have gone ragged.
I am not sure what to do now. The tetras only started dying since I added the medication, so maybe it is too toxic for them, but it could be the white spot....I just don't know! The tetras had a lot more spots on them than the other fish.
Should this really be so hard? Have other people had a similar experience or have I been unlucky? I know I have made lots of mistakes, but the water quality has always been good. I feed them on Hikari Tropical Micro Pellets and Tetramin flakes on alternate days and cooked peas weekly or fortnightly. The fish have been bought from a variety of aquatic shops, pet shops and the usual big chain.
When the ich parasites are dead I intend to re-stock the tank, so I would appreciate it if anyone has any advice to stop this happening again. So far, under my care I have lost 3 endlers, 2 guppies, 2 platys, 1 ram, 4 tetras and 1 hatchet fish I expect to lose at least the last 2 tetras before the ich is gone and probably a few more hatchet fish.
Thanks for reading this lengthily post!
1- white spot is a parasite that spreads like wildfire. Once one fish has it, the others are at high risk. treat the whole tank. The second platy developed a brown lump on its side near the tale. I did not treat it because after research it could have been any number of issues with different treatments and I did not want to put medication in the tank which had a good chance of being the wrong medication. Meanwhile the ram started eating less and over time seemed to get smaller....then after another month, it died. Lots of people report their rams dying after 6 month or so of keeping them, so I put it down to bad breeding and them being not a very hardy fish.
I bought 6 Ornate tetras since I did not have any schooling fish. All was well for about 5 weeks then I lost a female platy. The first fish I bought.
I found a baby platy in the tank. I had seen fry before, but this one looks to have got to the point where it is a proper little fish.
This brings up up to two weeks ago when the tank was stocked with 6 ornate tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 platy and 1 tiny platy. I bought 6 marbled hatchet fish which would bring the tank up to 100% stocked for the first time according to the aqadvisor website.
A couple of days later the platy started flashing so I added aquarium salt. The following weekend I did the normal 25% water change, but did not add any salt back in. After about three days of swimming around with clamped fins it died.
Friday evening one of the hatchet fish died. After having two deaths so close together, I had a close look at them and all fish had symptoms of ich (white spot), loads of it!
I did not see the spots before because I stopped using the aquarium lights a while back when I replaced my live plants with plastic ones since they kept dying and getting caught in the filter intake so there did not seem any point putting the lights on. Plus the tetras get a bit scared of the lights. With the lights on the spots are really noticeable, but almost invisible with them off.
I dosed the tank with King British WS3 yesterday and raised the temperature to 82 degrees Fahrenheit from 75 degrees. I raised the temp slowly over the course of the day. I lost two tetras yesterday, one more overnight and one today. The remaining two are listless on the bottom. Gourami and baby platy seem ok. They have very few spots on them. The 5 remaining hatchet fish fins have quite a lot of spots and the fins have gone ragged.
I am not sure what to do now. The tetras only started dying since I added the medication, so maybe it is too toxic for them, but it could be the white spot....I just don't know! The tetras had a lot more spots on them than the other fish.
Should this really be so hard? Have other people had a similar experience or have I been unlucky? I know I have made lots of mistakes, but the water quality has always been good. I feed them on Hikari Tropical Micro Pellets and Tetramin flakes on alternate days and cooked peas weekly or fortnightly. The fish have been bought from a variety of aquatic shops, pet shops and the usual big chain.
When the ich parasites are dead I intend to re-stock the tank, so I would appreciate it if anyone has any advice to stop this happening again. So far, under my care I have lost 3 endlers, 2 guppies, 2 platys, 1 ram, 4 tetras and 1 hatchet fish
I expect to lose at least the last 2 tetras before the ich is gone and probably a few more hatchet fish.Thanks for reading this lengthily post!
2- you are feeding them too much. The food they do not eat simply rots at the bottom of the tank, this increases the nasties, ammonia, nitrate, niterite. Feed once every other day, stick with the flakes.
3- DO NOT BUY ANY MORE FISH! This is your opportunity to undo all of the mistakes and bad advice! Read up on fishless and fish in cycling, and follow the advice to the letter, and the advice in this post. Make sure the white spot has is fully cured before you buy any more fish. If you do not have any fish left in the tank, you should really do fishless cycling. If you do have a fish left, do regular water changes, as described in this post, and online.
to answer your question, "should it really be this hard?" the answer is no. It shouldnt. But those early mistakes have cost you dear. Keeping a tank is a wonderful, relaxing thing to have, and it only gets difficult when you start looking after more complex, sensitive fish. If you must buy more fish, but something VERY hardy, like Zebra danios. Stay away from neon tetras, very pretty fish but very sensitive to their environment, its best to add these after 6 weeks or so of the tank being fully established. Good luck!
Its not tough keeping fish, its getting told aboslute shyte by weekend workers at the likes of who actually no very little about good fishkeeping.
I see this kind of post all the time, and it angers me that LFS still employ yes monkeys to make a fast buck.
As has been said, it can take three months for a new tank to cycle and settle in.
Its not your fault per se, but please try to research your fish keeping more thooughly.
I get 40ppm Nitrate from the tap, which means that I now prepare my water change water in a butt, after going through both a Nitrate filter and HMA filter.
This gives me 0% Nitrate and all heavy metals removed from the tap water.
Its added to the tank after heating so I only see about 0.5 of a dgree in temp change.
Ive kept fish for 25 years or more, and see this all the time, it depressing as it puts people off keeping fish.
ETA
No names please.
who actually no very little about good fishkeeping.I see this kind of post all the time, and it angers me that LFS still employ yes monkeys to make a fast buck.
As has been said, it can take three months for a new tank to cycle and settle in.
Its not your fault per se, but please try to research your fish keeping more thooughly.
I get 40ppm Nitrate from the tap, which means that I now prepare my water change water in a butt, after going through both a Nitrate filter and HMA filter.
This gives me 0% Nitrate and all heavy metals removed from the tap water.
Its added to the tank after heating so I only see about 0.5 of a dgree in temp change.
Ive kept fish for 25 years or more, and see this all the time, it depressing as it puts people off keeping fish.
ETA
No names please.
Edited by Big Al. on Wednesday 25th February 10:58
Thanks for taking the time to write all that. I feed them once a day now, but I have to admit, I probably do feed them too much as there is usually some of the smallest flakes left over. Should I withhold food this evening or give them a bit to keep their strength up?
I test the water using an API master test kit and since the cycle completed I have had zero ammonia and nitrite in the tank. I am sure it works because it did pick up some ammonia and nitrate before the cycle was complete, hence why I did daily changes when I realised the Fluval Cycle wasn't working.
I was (still am) most worried about the nitrates being constantly at 40ppm, but since the water straight from the tap tests at 40ppm, is it going to be beneficial to do more than one change per week? One of the reasons I stopped using live plants was that I thought the decaying plants might have raised the nitrate level, but the fish used to nibble the plants quite a lot, so maybe they have been missing some nutrients. I only started giving them peas after I took the plants out.
Turn7, I have not heard of a nitrate filter before, I'll do some reading on those tonight.
The fish that were introduced before the cycle was completely finished were the 3 endlers, 2 platies and 2 guppies. Even though I did daily water changes and used SafeStart, perhaps what they were exposed to weakened and made them susceptible to something that killed them later. One thing I can report is that Fluval Cycle definitely does not do what is says on the tin!
So disappointed to have lost the ornate tetras as they were a picture of health, very lively and had grown quite a lot before the ich struck them. It must have come in with the hatchet fish.
I'll keep you updated.
I test the water using an API master test kit and since the cycle completed I have had zero ammonia and nitrite in the tank. I am sure it works because it did pick up some ammonia and nitrate before the cycle was complete, hence why I did daily changes when I realised the Fluval Cycle wasn't working.
I was (still am) most worried about the nitrates being constantly at 40ppm, but since the water straight from the tap tests at 40ppm, is it going to be beneficial to do more than one change per week? One of the reasons I stopped using live plants was that I thought the decaying plants might have raised the nitrate level, but the fish used to nibble the plants quite a lot, so maybe they have been missing some nutrients. I only started giving them peas after I took the plants out.
Turn7, I have not heard of a nitrate filter before, I'll do some reading on those tonight.
The fish that were introduced before the cycle was completely finished were the 3 endlers, 2 platies and 2 guppies. Even though I did daily water changes and used SafeStart, perhaps what they were exposed to weakened and made them susceptible to something that killed them later. One thing I can report is that Fluval Cycle definitely does not do what is says on the tin!
So disappointed to have lost the ornate tetras as they were a picture of health, very lively and had grown quite a lot before the ich struck them. It must have come in with the hatchet fish.
I'll keep you updated.
I don't think the white spot treatments kill the parasite while on the fish. Instead it kills the free-swimming stage after it drops off the fish to reproduce.
So unfortunately it won't cure badly infected fish but helps those that survive the first wave. I've heard it suggested that you add white spot treatment whenever introducing new fish, particularly if you have any susceptible species like clown loaches.
So unfortunately it won't cure badly infected fish but helps those that survive the first wave. I've heard it suggested that you add white spot treatment whenever introducing new fish, particularly if you have any susceptible species like clown loaches.
This stuff is awesome, I get 40ppm from the tap, and after going through ten litres of the stuff, I get 0.
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/Nitrate...
I use one of these:
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/8.5-Lit...
Which means I dont have to keep recharging the Purolite - smaller pods are available....
I aslo use one of these:
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/DD_HMA_...
I run the hose into the Nitrate filter, then the HMA, into a water butt overnight, this then gets aerated an heated....
Before adding to my tank, I check the PH matches the tank, and I add Seachem Prime purely as a precaution and also Seachem Cichlid trace minerals as thats what I keep.
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/Nitrate...
I use one of these:
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/8.5-Lit...
Which means I dont have to keep recharging the Purolite - smaller pods are available....
I aslo use one of these:
http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/DD_HMA_...
I run the hose into the Nitrate filter, then the HMA, into a water butt overnight, this then gets aerated an heated....
Before adding to my tank, I check the PH matches the tank, and I add Seachem Prime purely as a precaution and also Seachem Cichlid trace minerals as thats what I keep.
I think your biggest problem is stability, or lack thereof.
problem 1
Too many fish at the same time and too soon. Result, upsets ammonia and nitrate, even if temporary it stresses the fish and does permanent damage to the gills etc making them more prone to stress and problems later (think 70yr old smoker)
Solution, stock lightly, max fish loads are an estimate and need ideal conditions, at max fish load the slightest degradation of the filter or the introduction of a messy feeding block, unnoticed dead fish, over feeding etc can push the whole thing over the edge real fast. Stock below max load and introduce slowly only one or two fish at a time.
Problem 2
Your water changes aren't helping your nitrate. The main reason for the water change is to dilute nitrate, if the water your putting in is the same reading to the tank then why bother with the water change. It also runs the risk of introducing other stress factors such as chlorine (you must de-chlorinate tap water) and maybe temperature swings, (you must match new water with the tank temperature before adding, not rely on the tank heater)
Solution, invest in a tap water filter to remove chlorine, nitrate and other impurities. Even an RO system isn't that expensive, but with RO in a freshwater tank you need to buffer it or add back some tap water as RO water is too pure for freshwater fish, but one of the DI resins will likely be sufficient.
But I'm going to go against the grain here and say, step away from the kitchen tap, until you sort out better water change water or your tank nitrates start exceeding your tap water then slow down your change rate and keep the tank stable. That's assuming your tank water looks healthy (no cloudiness, bad smell or algae blooms) and there isn't any leaching contaminants from that new bright orange toy (or even lump of wood or rock)
Problem 3
Stability, your fish are sick because they are stressed, they are stressed because your tank doesn't sound stable, you have the above problems with water changes, you have fish coming and going and each time you put a new one in its not just the chemical impact, there is also an upset to the tank hierarchy, everyone need to find their new place in the tank, some may find not only are they no longer top dog but that they find this out when trying to access their favorite bolt hole.
On top of all that one starts showing signs of white spot so you increase the water changes, change the specific gravity of the water and raise the temperature, Whilst all are methods for treating diseases they are also all further stress factors on your fish, potentially tipping healthy ones over into succumbing.
Homeopathic treatments have their place, I.e in a reef tank where you cant use copper based medicines (most of them) or there is some other reason for not adding medicine, but most of them stress the fish further, the theory is that it stresses/kills the pathogen more/quicker than the fish, but it still puts the fish under more stress when it least needs it. So if you can, you are better off using a good treatment and keeping everything else stable as possible (within the limits of correcting any deficiencies of tank parameters)
In my experience, fish keeping doesn't have to be hard, but it can be, and the fish-keeper can and often is their own worst enemy (and the poor fishes). When i stopped stressing about my marine tank and stopped buggering around with it every 30 seconds in order to provide the perfect system, but rather let my fish levels decline to light stocking levels, stop buying the latest gadget, and doing the bare minimum of maintenance when i really had to, things have been far more stable and successful.
problem 1
Too many fish at the same time and too soon. Result, upsets ammonia and nitrate, even if temporary it stresses the fish and does permanent damage to the gills etc making them more prone to stress and problems later (think 70yr old smoker)
Solution, stock lightly, max fish loads are an estimate and need ideal conditions, at max fish load the slightest degradation of the filter or the introduction of a messy feeding block, unnoticed dead fish, over feeding etc can push the whole thing over the edge real fast. Stock below max load and introduce slowly only one or two fish at a time.
Problem 2
Your water changes aren't helping your nitrate. The main reason for the water change is to dilute nitrate, if the water your putting in is the same reading to the tank then why bother with the water change. It also runs the risk of introducing other stress factors such as chlorine (you must de-chlorinate tap water) and maybe temperature swings, (you must match new water with the tank temperature before adding, not rely on the tank heater)
Solution, invest in a tap water filter to remove chlorine, nitrate and other impurities. Even an RO system isn't that expensive, but with RO in a freshwater tank you need to buffer it or add back some tap water as RO water is too pure for freshwater fish, but one of the DI resins will likely be sufficient.
But I'm going to go against the grain here and say, step away from the kitchen tap, until you sort out better water change water or your tank nitrates start exceeding your tap water then slow down your change rate and keep the tank stable. That's assuming your tank water looks healthy (no cloudiness, bad smell or algae blooms) and there isn't any leaching contaminants from that new bright orange toy (or even lump of wood or rock)
Problem 3
Stability, your fish are sick because they are stressed, they are stressed because your tank doesn't sound stable, you have the above problems with water changes, you have fish coming and going and each time you put a new one in its not just the chemical impact, there is also an upset to the tank hierarchy, everyone need to find their new place in the tank, some may find not only are they no longer top dog but that they find this out when trying to access their favorite bolt hole.
On top of all that one starts showing signs of white spot so you increase the water changes, change the specific gravity of the water and raise the temperature, Whilst all are methods for treating diseases they are also all further stress factors on your fish, potentially tipping healthy ones over into succumbing.
Homeopathic treatments have their place, I.e in a reef tank where you cant use copper based medicines (most of them) or there is some other reason for not adding medicine, but most of them stress the fish further, the theory is that it stresses/kills the pathogen more/quicker than the fish, but it still puts the fish under more stress when it least needs it. So if you can, you are better off using a good treatment and keeping everything else stable as possible (within the limits of correcting any deficiencies of tank parameters)
In my experience, fish keeping doesn't have to be hard, but it can be, and the fish-keeper can and often is their own worst enemy (and the poor fishes). When i stopped stressing about my marine tank and stopped buggering around with it every 30 seconds in order to provide the perfect system, but rather let my fish levels decline to light stocking levels, stop buying the latest gadget, and doing the bare minimum of maintenance when i really had to, things have been far more stable and successful.
Lots of good advice there thank you. I usually do a thorough gravel vacuum when I do the weekly water change. Perhaps I am being a bit too thorough and stressing the fish? Do you think I should change to a different substrate that might be easier to clean? Sand?
I think I'll get the 6.8L Spectrum vessel. That is the biggest size I can get as I am going to have to plumb in a T-piece off the mains feed pipe to the bathroom sink and fit another tap under the sink. I live in a flat, so the 6" wide space behind the basin pedestal is really the only place it can go. None of my existing taps are suitable for attaching a hose to.
How many litres of water do you think I can pass through the vessel before needing to regenerate the Purolite resin?
I lost a hatchet fish today and another hatchet looks to have 90% of its tail missing. I am worried that fin rot might be attacking them while they are in a weakened state. Not sure what I can do about that without introducing another medication which is dangerous in itself. They are already dosed with aquarium salt.
I think I'll get the 6.8L Spectrum vessel. That is the biggest size I can get as I am going to have to plumb in a T-piece off the mains feed pipe to the bathroom sink and fit another tap under the sink. I live in a flat, so the 6" wide space behind the basin pedestal is really the only place it can go. None of my existing taps are suitable for attaching a hose to.
How many litres of water do you think I can pass through the vessel before needing to regenerate the Purolite resin?
I lost a hatchet fish today and another hatchet looks to have 90% of its tail missing. I am worried that fin rot might be attacking them while they are in a weakened state. Not sure what I can do about that without introducing another medication which is dangerous in itself. They are already dosed with aquarium salt.
Just found it on the page for the resin. It works out to 3400 litres of water for a 6.8L vessel, so enough for at least a couple of years worth of water changes. A bit pricey at £180 initial outlay, but well worth it if it brings the nitrates down to 0ppm.
The only downside I can see is that instead of using the kettle to bring the water up to temperature, I would have to fill a bucket with filtered water and use a spare tank heater I have to warm the water.
How do you guys with bigger tanks heat your water? I don't feel comfortable using water out the hot water tank for the fish. My water is heated with an economy 7 immersion heater.
The only downside I can see is that instead of using the kettle to bring the water up to temperature, I would have to fill a bucket with filtered water and use a spare tank heater I have to warm the water.
How do you guys with bigger tanks heat your water? I don't feel comfortable using water out the hot water tank for the fish. My water is heated with an economy 7 immersion heater.
I feel sorry for you, and agree with what others said above, done too much too soon, and got ill advice from your LFS.
I keep sulawesi shrimps and snails in my tank, keeping these buggers are even harder compare to keeping the average fish.
But I still manage to do it with minimum of effort, mainly down to enough research before starting and how to keep it going.
I don't use RO system, but uses a multi-filter system that takes most of the nasty things out, it doesn't give 0 TDS like a RO system, and it's much cheaper to replace the filters in it.
I also don't bother with preheating for water change, I just let it run at a really slow rate when adding water back in, it takes me around 3hrs in winter to fill 25%, 1hr in summer, I just let the tank heater do it's job.
I also add BioDigest bacteria on every change, it's not needed, but I do it. Also add minerals to get GH levels up as the shrimps needs around 8 GH to live.
Also have a pre-filter inline to my Eheim 2217 that have NP Reducing BioPellets XL in it to take out NO3, on the API test cards, my results is always 0ppm for NO3.
You never mentioned what you use for the 'media' in your tank/filter, a good tank needs all those goody goody bacteria to keep things going, some uses aquarium bacteria rings, some lay down a bed of sands/stones/dead coral/lava rocks to 'keep' these bacteria, look up on it, it may help you out.
I personally uses PH Mono balls, PH lava sands, PH lava stones and rocks, PH is a Japanese brand, not sure if you guys seen it, but their stuffs so far have given me no problems and crystal clear water.
As for white spots, my experience is temps are not high enough or temp shocks, meaning your water change is too quick, it's like taking you from a 33c summer day and dump you in a frozen lake straight away, it'll shock the fish and do bad things to them, likewise for water quality, never change water too quickly, water is their living environment, suddenly changing their water will shock and stress them.
I keep sulawesi shrimps and snails in my tank, keeping these buggers are even harder compare to keeping the average fish.
But I still manage to do it with minimum of effort, mainly down to enough research before starting and how to keep it going.
I don't use RO system, but uses a multi-filter system that takes most of the nasty things out, it doesn't give 0 TDS like a RO system, and it's much cheaper to replace the filters in it.
I also don't bother with preheating for water change, I just let it run at a really slow rate when adding water back in, it takes me around 3hrs in winter to fill 25%, 1hr in summer, I just let the tank heater do it's job.
I also add BioDigest bacteria on every change, it's not needed, but I do it. Also add minerals to get GH levels up as the shrimps needs around 8 GH to live.
Also have a pre-filter inline to my Eheim 2217 that have NP Reducing BioPellets XL in it to take out NO3, on the API test cards, my results is always 0ppm for NO3.
You never mentioned what you use for the 'media' in your tank/filter, a good tank needs all those goody goody bacteria to keep things going, some uses aquarium bacteria rings, some lay down a bed of sands/stones/dead coral/lava rocks to 'keep' these bacteria, look up on it, it may help you out.
I personally uses PH Mono balls, PH lava sands, PH lava stones and rocks, PH is a Japanese brand, not sure if you guys seen it, but their stuffs so far have given me no problems and crystal clear water.
As for white spots, my experience is temps are not high enough or temp shocks, meaning your water change is too quick, it's like taking you from a 33c summer day and dump you in a frozen lake straight away, it'll shock the fish and do bad things to them, likewise for water quality, never change water too quickly, water is their living environment, suddenly changing their water will shock and stress them.
It's been at least 24 hours since something died so hopefully the ich parasites are getting killed off. I have learnt a lot from this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed.
I have a spare chamber in the filter so I could fill it with NP Reducing BioPellets? If your nitrates are always zero if you use these pellets, what is the benefit of doing a water change?
slowx said:
Also have a pre-filter inline to my Eheim 2217 that have NP Reducing BioPellets XL in it to take out NO3, on the API test cards, my results is always 0ppm for NO3.
You never mentioned what you use for the 'media' in your tank/filter, a good tank needs all those goody goody bacteria to keep things going, some uses aquarium bacteria rings, some lay down a bed of sands/stones/dead coral/lava rocks to 'keep' these bacteria, look up on it, it may help you out.
I personally uses PH Mono balls, PH lava sands, PH lava stones and rocks, PH is a Japanese brand, not sure if you guys seen it, but their stuffs so far have given me no problems and crystal clear water.
I use the standard sponge and bio rings the filter came with. It's a Fluval 106 external cannister...oversized for the size of the tank. I don't use carbon as I read a lot of people don't these days. Perhaps I should? The water looks clean.You never mentioned what you use for the 'media' in your tank/filter, a good tank needs all those goody goody bacteria to keep things going, some uses aquarium bacteria rings, some lay down a bed of sands/stones/dead coral/lava rocks to 'keep' these bacteria, look up on it, it may help you out.
I personally uses PH Mono balls, PH lava sands, PH lava stones and rocks, PH is a Japanese brand, not sure if you guys seen it, but their stuffs so far have given me no problems and crystal clear water.
I have a spare chamber in the filter so I could fill it with NP Reducing BioPellets? If your nitrates are always zero if you use these pellets, what is the benefit of doing a water change?
slowx said:
As for white spots, my experience is temps are not high enough or temp shocks, meaning your water change is too quick, it's like taking you from a 33c summer day and dump you in a frozen lake straight away, it'll shock the fish and do bad things to them, likewise for water quality, never change water too quickly, water is their living environment, suddenly changing their water will shock and stress them.
Ok thanks, I'll be more careful from now on to make sure I match the water temperature exactly. Unfortunately I don't think I will be able to drip the new water in as my tank is quite high up. The lid is at shoulder height.AlexC1981 said:
I use the standard sponge and bio rings the filter came with. It's a Fluval 106 external cannister...oversized for the size of the tank. I don't use carbon as I read a lot of people don't these days. Perhaps I should? The water looks clean.
I have a spare chamber in the filter so I could fill it with NP Reducing BioPellets? If your nitrates are always zero if you use these pellets, what is the benefit of doing a water change?
I am not sure how good the rings are that comes with your Fluval, I've always used other brands that I have used in the past, now I uses PH(Power House) products mostly since that's what we get over here.I have a spare chamber in the filter so I could fill it with NP Reducing BioPellets? If your nitrates are always zero if you use these pellets, what is the benefit of doing a water change?
Rings plays a big part in your system, there are ones that rise pH level and some which lowers it, if the kind of fish you keep are used to a acidic environment then it's best to buy rings that can turn your water into a more acidic level for your fish.
In my Eheim 2217, I filled 6L of PH Mono balls(pH neutral), since shrimps don't make massive s
t all I need is enough bacteria to clean it up, that's why I filled the whole thing with it.
BioPellets only need a small amount, there are instructions in how much you need for X amount of water, so it's up to you in where you place it.
With regards to carbon...never used so can't comment.
Changing water when NO3 is showing 0PPM, well, there are many reason to change it even tho the results looks good, for people who keep shrimps, it's more than just NO3, we have to keep an eye on pH levels, GH, KH, TDS, crap in sand beds, scraping off algae, etc etc...
Some media will keep rising TDS, some will rise GH/KH, some will affect pH levels, there is nothing we can do when these things start changing the stats, only changing water is the answer.
AlexC1981 said:
Ok thanks, I'll be more careful from now on to make sure I match the water temperature exactly. Unfortunately I don't think I will be able to drip the new water in as my tank is quite high up. The lid is at shoulder height.
I am surprised your LFS don't stock drip/buffer buckets for aquariums...
48 hours and no more deaths. All the spots are gone and the remaining fish are acting normally again with the exception of "Stumpy"....the hatchet fish with a lot of fin damage. He tends to swim apart from the other hatchets.
Thanks for all the photos and information slowx, I have been reading about the bio pellets. All the brands I have looked at say they are for marine tanks and you should have a skimmer as well ideally. Is yours a marine tank?
I have ordered the pressure vessel and resin. Looks like I will be doing some plumbing this weekend!
Thanks for all the photos and information slowx, I have been reading about the bio pellets. All the brands I have looked at say they are for marine tanks and you should have a skimmer as well ideally. Is yours a marine tank?
I have ordered the pressure vessel and resin. Looks like I will be doing some plumbing this weekend!
AlexC1981 said:
48 hours and no more deaths. All the spots are gone and the remaining fish are acting normally again with the exception of "Stumpy"....the hatchet fish with a lot of fin damage. He tends to swim apart from the other hatchets.
Thanks for all the photos and information slowx, I have been reading about the bio pellets. All the brands I have looked at say they are for marine tanks and you should have a skimmer as well ideally. Is yours a marine tank?
I have ordered the pressure vessel and resin. Looks like I will be doing some plumbing this weekend!
The ones I use (as per my photo) don't need a skimmer, you can see how I placed it in my pre-filter with Mono balls.Thanks for all the photos and information slowx, I have been reading about the bio pellets. All the brands I have looked at say they are for marine tanks and you should have a skimmer as well ideally. Is yours a marine tank?
I have ordered the pressure vessel and resin. Looks like I will be doing some plumbing this weekend!
And my tank is fresh water, have used it in all my fresh water tanks, it isn't just for salt water, it's just a product that is made to reduce NO3 with very effective results, so saying it is for marine tank is very normal since some marine tanks do need to have this product to help with NO3 control.
I have just given the fish their final a dosage of the ich treatment. Everyone looks happy and Stumpy has had some fin regrowth and has rejoined the school. I am going to reduce the temperature down to 80 from 82 tonight.
I've got a question which is going to make some eyes roll, but here we go.... I am down to four hatchet fish which should be kept in schools of no fewer than six. The only supplier of hatchet fish that I am aware of is the shop I bought my current hatchets which introduced the ich to my tank. Should I go and get two hatchets tomorrow? The reason for the rush is that they can be put in the aquarium while the ich medication is still present and this should prevent another outbreak? I don't want to have to put the fish through another full round of treatment if I get more hatchets at a later date.
I've got a question which is going to make some eyes roll, but here we go.... I am down to four hatchet fish which should be kept in schools of no fewer than six. The only supplier of hatchet fish that I am aware of is the shop I bought my current hatchets which introduced the ich to my tank. Should I go and get two hatchets tomorrow? The reason for the rush is that they can be put in the aquarium while the ich medication is still present and this should prevent another outbreak? I don't want to have to put the fish through another full round of treatment if I get more hatchets at a later date.
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