MCN test of the new R1

[fergus]

Freakuk said:

than wanting to think ....... it's actually MotoGP tech when it's not by a long shot. It's a bike built to a budget (like they all are) to be built in it's millions

Agreed, it will be built to a budget, etc, but in what way are some of the electronic control strategies not derived from Moto GP tech?

[Lincsblokey]

Mort said:

jjr1 said:

Are you serious? People shouldn't consider looks when buying a bike?

Bet your wife is a minger as well but you justify it by her great personality. Jesus wept.

Nah mate... the wifes a looker and she goes well... but she aint no bike, unlike your mrs... she's a proper bike aye. I know cos I rode your mrs and she was rubbish. Ask her what that stain on yer bedroom curtain is.

Really?

I mean, come on, some of us have a laugh but thats just immature.

If you want to insult each others partners maybe Biker Banter isnt for you?

[Mort]

Lincsblokey said:

Really?

I mean, come on, some of us have a laugh but thats just immature.

If you want to insult each others partners maybe Biker Banter isnt for you?

Perhaps Banter aint your game mate ....

[Tim85]

I personally don't the think Yamaha have made a bad looking r1.



I love the 14b shape and I love the new one. I'm definitely going to have to test ride the new one when dealers eventually have some.

The main thing that excites me about this new wave of 2015 superbikes is how they all seem to (from the reviews) flatter the average rider and make 200hp usable for even us less gifted riders.

I'll always appreciate someone that can really ride one of the older generation big bikes fast without tc sc anti wheelie etc and Ill always wish I had that skill but for my level I'd love to be able to afford one of these for a track bike with the auto blipper quickshifter traction control and all the bells and whistles.

[Richyboy]

Does the new R1 come with an autoblipper quickshifter thing?

[Tim85]

Richyboy said:

Does the new R1 come with an autoblipper quickshifter thing?

Not sure if it does. I think itd only be the r1m if it does.

[wtdoom]

Richyboy said:

Does the new R1 come with an autoblipper quickshifter thing?

Has quick shifter but no auto blip on way down box

[fergus]

Tim85 said:

The main thing that excites me about this new wave of 2015 superbikes is how they all seem to (from the reviews) flatter the average rider and make 200hp usable for even us less gifted riders.

I'll always appreciate someone that can really ride one of the older generation big bikes fast without tc sc anti wheelie etc and Ill always wish I had that skill but for my level I'd love to be able to afford one of these for a track bike with the auto blipper quickshifter traction control and all the bells and whistles.

Even given the rider aids on all the current crop of bikes, I doubt many will still be able to put the full power of the engine to the test, other than on the straight, where "anti lift" (wheelie control) is about the only aid needed. The level of commitment needed into corners to really feel the full benefit of most of the rider aids is very high on modern bikes due to the grip offered by the chassis and tyres. I'd wager 95% of riders on the 2015 bikes are likely to venture into this territory.

If you were to take datalogs of the throttle and brake pressure activity over a typical lap, for most people this wouldn't differ between a bike with no/basic rider aids and the 2015 models. Mentally, try going into a 120mph 4th gear corner, cranked fairly well over, then simply crack the throttle *100%* open mid or even slightly pre-apex. Even if you were to do that, being able to control the acceleration of the bike out of the bend from that point on will take most riders a lot of getting used to (i.e. holding the line, etc).

I would be genuinely interested to hear opinions (and see lap time improvments, etc) from "typical" trackday riders on the new breed of bikes.

[Tim85]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'd be getting close to the bikes potential but I've ridden a few bikes with tc and the light does flash quite a bit especially in not perfect conditions. That was on the road mind you.
All the reviews so far from the 1299 s1000rr and r1 have all said they flatter riders ability and leave the rider to basically focus on lines. I'm sure that I could get on one of these and feel more confident pushing my own limits rather than pushing my previous generation r1 with no rider aids.

I remember on a ride out I was on the new s1000r and my mate who is usually quite a lot faster than me on his old ropey vtr firestorm. I literally. Left him for dead. It was slightly damp but the adaptive suspension and traction control was mega. It just gave instant feedback and confidence.

Personally I'm pretty convinced with newer technology and each generation gap I'd benefit slightly on track and road.
I've ridden a k1 gsxr1000/98 r1 which was quite intimidating then the k5 which was a fair bit faster but not as scary and then the new well 2014 s1000rr and that was a lot faster but also easier. Be it obviously the increase in hp but also all the help like abs quickshifter slipperclutch traction control. All these things help hamfisted apes like me who like to go fast but doesn't have the skills of all the more experienced faster guys.

[LoonR1]

accident said:

the M will be bought for the most part by people who will never ride it.put it in a box and look at it types who may make some cash if resale goes up.
as for the ugly front end,its far from the worst out there but taste is subjective so stuff and things etc.
it does look like this is a bike to attack wsb and go for a win.
a win may boost sales and lets face it,they want your money!

bks it will. I bet there are dozens of R1Ms on race tracks around the country competing at all levels. There'll also be plenty on the road too. it's a £20k bike that'll be used a lot by those who've bought one.

[thatdude]

fergus said:

If you were to take datalogs of the throttle and brake pressure activity over a typical lap, for most people this wouldn't differ between a bike with no/basic rider aids and the 2015 models. Mentally, try going into a 120mph 4th gear corner, cranked fairly well over, then simply crack the throttle *100%* open mid or even slightly pre-apex. Even if you were to do that, being able to control the acceleration of the bike out of the bend from that point on will take most riders a lot of getting used to (i.e. holding the line, etc).

I would be genuinely interested to hear opinions (and see lap time improvments, etc) from "typical" trackday riders on the new breed of bikes.

I remember something James Ellison said when he rode the YZR-M1 motogp bike...he said it was a real leap of faith for him to just crack the throttle on out of the corner and trust the electronics to work everything out for him. I think you still need to have a good understandning of what a bike is going to do when you crack open the throttle, because it's going to want to sit up and go wider and all sorts. Everything is happening very quick and your mind still needs to be sharp. I suppose, with electronic aids, the fast rider can ride fast laps for a longer duration, since their mind dosnt become fatigued having to work out how to control the sliding and so on, becuase the computer is taking care of that. So a given persons pace on the track can be higher for longer. On the road, it means the rider maintains their concentration for longer, which makes them safer as they can react to hazards more effectivly, knowing they can let the bike sort out the slides and such while they just concentrate on not having a crash or an otherwise nasty moment. The brain dosnt have to work as hard, so it can work at an elevated level for longer.

[fergus]

thatdude said:

I remember something James Ellison said when he rode the YZR-M1 motogp bike...he said it was a real leap of faith for him to just crack the throttle on out of the corner and trust the electronics to work everything out for him. I think you still need to have a good understandning of what a bike is going to do when you crack open the throttle, because it's going to want to sit up and go wider and all sorts. Everything is happening very quick and your mind still needs to be sharp. I suppose, with electronic aids, the fast rider can ride fast laps for a longer duration, since their mind dosnt become fatigued having to work out how to control the sliding and so on, becuase the computer is taking care of that. So a given persons pace on the track can be higher for longer. On the road, it means the rider maintains their concentration for longer, which makes them safer as they can react to hazards more effectivly, knowing they can let the bike sort out the slides and such while they just concentrate on not having a crash or an otherwise nasty moment. The brain dosnt have to work as hard, so it can work at an elevated level for longer.

Agree with all your points above, however, people need to bear in mind the grip levels of the tyres and the laws of physics not being overwritten by an R1 CPU!

Most people's speed on track is limited partially by corner entry speed, then by being slow getting on FULL gas out of the corner. The electronics only help with the second part of this argument... The argument to be more able to trail brake due to C-ABS won't have too much influence on corner entry speed for a typical rider in my opinion. Getting used to the electronics on the way out is do-able. Carrying more speed into the corner is a different ball game, hence why most superstock riders (with most electronic strategies disabled) will still be quicker than the typical person on their "2015" bike.

[macdeb]

wtdoom said:

I think it's gorgeous

+1

[PR36]

fergus said:

Agree with all your points above, however, people need to bear in mind the grip levels of the tyres and the laws of physics not being overwritten by an R1 CPU!

.

100pct agree. It makes me cringe when I hear talk about tc and rider aids as though they are some magic bullet, the favourite being 'you can crack the throttle open and the bike will sort it out''. No it won't, the rider aids developed on moto gp bikes cost hundreds of thousands of pounds and yet the riders still manage to launch themselves at the scenery. The system on a road bike will be limited and can't magically make grip where there is none.

[3DP]

PR36 said:

fergus said:

Agree with all your points above, however, people need to bear in mind the grip levels of the tyres and the laws of physics not being overwritten by an R1 CPU!

.

100pct agree. It makes me cringe when I hear talk about tc and rider aids as though they are some magic bullet, the favourite being 'you can crack the throttle open and the bike will sort it out''. No it won't, the rider aids developed on moto gp bikes cost hundreds of thousands of pounds and yet the riders still manage to launch themselves at the scenery. The system on a road bike will be limited and can't magically make grip where there is none.

Exactly - on the road, they are largely pointless. 99% of people won't have the balls/skill/desire to approach the handling/grip limits in order to lean on electronics in the first place, and those that do, have the skill that they don't need them in the first place.

To me it's now smacking of top trumps, where you are nowhere if you haven't got the latest lean angle sensor tied in to your TC and fly by wire TBs. The reality is that none of this stuff will have any affect on the vast majority's dry road pace, back to back with it all being switched off. I've ridden with guys on S1000RRs on the road and their pace is dictated by their own ability and confidence, not the fact that they can suddenly come out of a 3rd gear sweeper with 45 degrees of lean and the throttle pinned. On the track, yes, but on the road these things are sales brochure gimmicks.

I've actually tried to lean on the TC on my own bike with it turned on to 'track' level (anymore than that and Anti-wheelie ruins feel/fun) and I can't get it to kick in on the road unless I blatantly try to by attempting stunts.

[thatdude]

PR36 said:

100pct agree. It makes me cringe when I hear talk about tc and rider aids as though they are some magic bullet, the favourite being 'you can crack the throttle open and the bike will sort it out''. No it won't, the rider aids developed on moto gp bikes cost hundreds of thousands of pounds and yet the riders still manage to launch themselves at the scenery. The system on a road bike will be limited and can't magically make grip where there is none.

Fair enough - I was making a sweeping generalisation that one can leave a more substantial amount of work up to the electronics; the point is, a rider dosnt have to think as much about certain things, because the computer is also helping out

[julian64]

I wish I had the time I watched that link back to do something useful with. It wasn't a review, it was an advert.

I remember a time when reviews would at least stick the bike on a dyno to find out if the power had been exaggerated. This guy just reads out the sales pamphlet!

Plus the fact that I am 6'1". Some of the guys they had trying out those bikes were obviously midgets and they still looked oversized on the bike.

Forget the bikes looks they don't matter because when you sit on the bike YOU change the look of the bike, and if I sat on the R1 I'd look nearly as daft as most europeans sitting on a ducati.

I think I'm right in saying you could make the bike bigger than matchbox and still keep the weight down.

[Richyboy]

julian64 said:

I wish I had the time I watched that link back to do something useful with. It wasn't a review, it was an advert.

I remember a time when reviews would at least stick the bike on a dyno to find out if the power had been exaggerated. This guy just reads out the sales pamphlet!

Plus the fact that I am 6'1". Some of the guys they had trying out those bikes were obviously midgets and they still looked oversized on the bike.

Forget the bikes looks they don't matter because when you sit on the bike YOU change the look of the bike, and if I sat on the R1 I'd look nearly as daft as most europeans sitting on a ducati.

I think I'm right in saying you could make the bike bigger than matchbox and still keep the weight down.

Isn't he on one of those all expenses paid things where you can't say a bad word about the product?

This youtube was slightly more informative-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzmOB5ObsQ8&sp...

[Tim85]

And the two main things that video point out is how when you jump on you instantly feel like you can ride it harder than other bikes and how easy the electronics make to ride at 100% (I'm guessing that's rider 100% obviously not bike 100%). This is my point regardless of how close we are or aren't to the bike/tyres potential these newer bikes aregetring easier to ride harder.
I was never saying I rely on traction control to keep me alive. From a purely road experiences I'm still convinced I'd be slightly quicker with every generation of bikes and this new generation just seem like quite a big step.

If I somehow win the lottery I'll go out and time my laps on a new r1 and my 2010 r1. And despite both being tragically slow I'm sure it'd be quicker on the new one.

[fergus]

Tim85 said:

If I somehow win the lottery I'll go out and time my laps on a new r1 and my 2010 r1. And despite both being tragically slow I'm sure it'd be quicker on the new one.

I'd still echo Pete's comments below with respect to most riders being unlikely to be in a position to utilise the electronic aids 95% of the time on the road.

There may be a placebo type effect of the "virtual safety net" which encourages people to ride faster.

It still requires the rider getting on the gas harder and earlier than would otherwise be the case on an older 'analogue' bike though. On the road, this isn't a natural thing to do, unless you've grown up with a playstation!