Winter tyre speed rating + autobahn?

Winter tyre speed rating + autobahn?

Author
Discussion

jbk

Original Poster:

92 posts

188 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
quotequote all
Hey folks, I have a winter ski trip coming up in two weeks, I'll be driving my delimited M3 down to the alps, from Amsterdam down to French alps and I'm taking an easterly route through germany to do as much derestricted autobahn as possible north to south through Germany. I will hopefully have the conditions that on a few occasions I might be able to open things up north of 150mph for a stretch, but this time I'm running 235/40/18 Michelin Alpin PA3 winter tyres as opposed to the usual summer tyre pilot sport or cups that i usually use. The V rating on these winter tyres is only 'rated' up to 150mph, what exactly that means I'm unsure, maybe they guarantee no delamination due solely to velocity under these speeds or something?! So, I'm just after a bit of practical advice from someone that's got lot of experience with 'winter tyres' on higher performance cars to give me an idea of whether these tyres generally need treating with a bit more care and can't quite be relied upon as much as a quality sports summer tyre. Any advice or thoughts on this.

350zwelgje

1,818 posts

260 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
quotequote all
V-rated so that is what is save. This is the disadvantage of winter tyres, it is the maximum for standard best available winter tyres. You are not supposed to go faster if there is snow on the road wink
If you want to open it up, use the summer tyres, it is dangerous speed/otherwise on winter tyres!

Hope there are no traffic jams as they have many as everywhere else in Europe, or many many miles are restricted in speed (even in the middle of nowhere), or if only dual there is always someone in the fast=left lane slowing down everybody....
Don't ask why I know, still frustrated after not working/driving 'derestricted' over there for a couple of years now.


Rob

jbk

Original Poster:

92 posts

188 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for your comments Rob, yeah it can get frustrating being on these roads when there is weight of traffic and yes you're right that much of it is indeed restricted these days. I think I have as good a route planned as is possible whilst heading in the direction that i need to be heading in, in terms of derestrictions and general weight of traffic and I'll be doing it at the quietest time of the week and day and of course I'll only be properly winding things up if conditions allow it.

So really what I'm after is some technical input from someone on what these V ratings really mean, what the specific technical risks would be on such a tyre at such loads. All to help me decide whether i take summer set up and run the risk of having to leave it at lower altitude when i get into the mountains but am better prepared for some proper autobahning if i get the opportunity, or go the winter set up for the mountains and just keep things sub warp speed on the autobahn or wind things up anyway pending what these V ratings really mean.

Thanks

Edited by jbk on Tuesday 24th February 23:30

PaulKemp

979 posts

144 months

Friday 27th February 2015
quotequote all
Risk & Law
The tyre manufacturers make tyres and test to very tigt regs for a safety critical item
It's not just about the speed but also the loads the tyre has to take when cornering and hard braking etc.
I would expect there to be a margin over the stated safe Max speed/load

What is more worrying is that you are looking to the Internet forums to get approval to take a 2 tonne car past it's safe design speed.



NNH

1,515 posts

131 months

Friday 27th February 2015
quotequote all
Like any other product, tyres have an unpublished safety margin. However, if you were unlucky enough to have an accident above the speed limit of your tyres, you can expect the German police to be very unhappy with you.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Friday 27th February 2015
quotequote all
yes, they will 'melt' at high speed and wear out VERY quickly, most are only recommended for 190kmh, 210, or 240 max speed, and have a little sticker to put inside the car - supposedly they are tested at 10kmh higher for 8 mins (!?)

In my experience they got a bit light and unstable even near the limits (I did about 220 on 210 rated tyres - hire car, what can you say)







350zwelgje

1,818 posts

260 months

Friday 27th February 2015
quotequote all
Agree with the previous comment. A few seconds, ehhm minutes probably will be fine (to save their a.. in court as you know).
If it goes wrong, it will go wrong in a big way. I am not a scared type of person, but I would not do it on winter tyres.
Additionally, if it would be over 7 degrees Celcius, the winter effect/character will 'burn' off, and they won't work as winter tyres anymore as well....
These tyres are specific for there application, and was happy what they do under those intended circumstances a few weeks ago in an ice and snow type of area in France. No need for snow chains etc, but go racing with them and you could end up d.....
It is like using semi/track/slick tyres on the road, hit a patch of water and you are lucky to tell the story afterwards. These tyres are in the opposite scale of that.

Can't you put four wheels with summer tyres in the skibox? Or change them for the fun time you want? I know not really an alternative.
Another proposition to be on the safe side of things: If I would go really fast in Germany I would use the right high speed tyres and if possible have some cheap stuff you now have that you can put on the summmer tyre to act as a winter tyre. Looks like cloth to me (or something like that), but will wear in a few miles if on dry and warm tarmac.... In the mountains you really need snow chains as you know, you need/can put these on summer or winter tyres, there is no difference, both won't work under extreme circumstances.

In a save way, have fun smile

Rob



BritishRacinGrin

24,602 posts

159 months

Saturday 28th February 2015
quotequote all
The problem is indeed heat accumulation in extended fast running. This will have been ascertained by running the tyre at maximum load with a safety factor. In my opinion short bursts over the speed rating, provided the car is in a good state of service and not heavily loaded.

Would I be travelling at that speed though? Not on your life. Unnecessary and frankly irresponsible given the extended stopping distances of winter tyres and winter conditions.

On summers, in the dry, with a comfortable margin before the higher speed rating is reached, then I might if de restricted and well sighted.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th February 2015
quotequote all
I've seen what the winters on my friend's Cayenne looked liked after she 'cooked them'

all feathered and worn at angles, like she'd done a track day or something

expensive lesson for her