if you had the option would you get carbon?

[andygtt]

best to go to another forum TBH as there are very few people on here who can give you in depth advice.... Ive considered this before and to make it worthwhile having a carbon chassis you need proper cad analysis done etc... it will be expensive to do right Id guess at least twice the cost of making the moulds and part themselves.
This is why I have shy'd away... I really really really wanted to make my own carbon wheels but had the same issue

[ezakimak]

Thanks Andy, I have started reading your thread on the other forum. Haven't signed up yet.
Have access to guys that are capable of doing the CAD analysis, Cnc work as well as the final construction

Dom, I might start something in home mechanics/general Motorsport just to see who is out there?

Pre preg suppliers?
Auto clave manufacturers?
Carbon specilists?
Canno or boat builders?

Edited by ezakimak on Friday 24th April 22:34

[PAUL500]

Lots of good info and a great forum can be found here:-

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Default.aspx

[ezakimak]

What's the deal with that forum, are they linked commercially with a supplier?

[ezakimak]

[-]I can't seem to get past the menus on that forum on my phone.

I can read AndyGTT's thread as someone else sent me a direct link to it.
Anyone else a member. Maybe I need to register. [/-]

EDIT, working now that i have registered, looks very much like the site is linked to "easy composites" & "carbonmods"

Ryan.

Edited by ezakimak on Monday 27th April 04:12

[f1rob]

For my sins over the last 30 years I have made over 200 carbon tubs.
Right from the fold up flat sheet fold up specials in f1 in the early 80,s,le mans winners,1st composite Indy car,Dtm,All the A1GP chassis an now back to current zylon clad F1 so I might be able to answer a few of your questions
Don't be put off its not as difficult as some people would have you belive !
Lots of simple chassis I made 30 years ago are still going strong in TGP with 450hp going through them
Google "wisper sports car" that is an all composite 7 chassis
Got a few ideas of my own if I ever get the time,if you REALLY want to use composite you have to think outside the box a bit,use the material to its full potential and exploit its properties
Not just make a carbon version of what you have already

[ezakimak]

Thanks Rob, much appreciated.

still on a bit of a learning curve at the moment. to do 200+ you must have been making a living from it and i appreciate that you have certain details you wish to protect. However i would be really great full if you could pass on some/any knowledge to help someone get started, or just understand it a little bit more. Who knows, it might open up the market for you a bit. I'm sure there are more than a few that would be scared to own a carbon tub due to the "fear of the unknown" and up-keep or repair costs should something go wrong.

Have you done much, if any "out of autoclave" pre preg carbon tubs? I see some of the pre preg stuff is being advertised as suitable for "out of autoclave" use in structural applications.

Ryan

[ezakimak]

f1rob said:

Google "wisper sports car" that is an all composite 7 chassis

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=193585&page=0&contribmessage=none

from link.

Martin Ogilvie's WiSPER ('Westfield in Structural Plastics Electric Roadster' ) used epoxy glass skinned panels, rather than carbon fibre:

Martin Ogilvie has some form if you know his background.

[f1rob]

I know martin very well,worked with him for many years and was with him at Toms GB when he was doing the wisper
The fact its glass was purely his choice it could just as easily been carbon
It was the basis for the fw400 but that just turned into a hash up by a group of cowboys who had never done a composite chassis

[dom9]

Really getting interesting now, good stuff one and all!

[f1rob]

All pre preg can be "out of autoclave" an you can get some good finishes but an out of autoclave ensures its almost perfect without too much hassle
Out of autoclave is "hot rolled" where the resin is applied to the carbon on one surface as it passes under a resin coated roller.
This ensures all your resin is sitting on your A surface when you place the cloth and during cooking it spreads through the rest of the fibre
"normal" pre preg goes through a resin bath,it totally saturated then through a pair of rollers to squeeze out excess resin and get the perfect ratio-a lot better way
Nothing stopping you having "out of autoclave" first ply and the rest of the laminate in "normal" pre preg
Normal material drapes' soo much better as well

Edited by f1rob on Tuesday 28th April 15:13

[andygtt]

ezakimak said:

What's the deal with that forum, are they linked commercially with a supplier?

yes that site is run by easycomposites (carbon mods is kinda another trading name of same company just with an aim to a different market).... on the site they do have links to the tuition videos etc etc.

They aren't funny about discussion of other products, but the moderators knowledge and comments are restricted to the products they sell... to be honest I have found the company's telephone advice invaluable (and its free) and they have looked after me and helped me learn as I go.

[ezakimak]

Rob and Andy, thanks for the information.

I have been reading through the various data sheets on pre preg from about 6 different supplier.
I have just about watched all the videos on the easy composites web site.
It is always good to know a bit of background about a forum beforehand so that I don’t start making an ass of myself at the off. There forum doesn’t seem to want to work on my Iphone. Works on the pc ok though.
Also been having a good look around the easy composites materials. Rob, they list a pre preg designed specifically as a surfacing layer for out of auto clave use and presume something like this is what you are referring to.
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/carbon-fi...


I first became aware of Martin Ogilvie’s work a couple of years ago when I was involved in a group build of a bike engine hill climber. We stumbled across the Saxon that he had been involved in, and then the predator with the V10 in the back. fantastic cars that certainly get the mind ticking over. We are still going on the hill climber, very slowly.

I will review the Wisper and the FW400 again, don’t want to be called John Wane.

One question I think I’m comfortable asking now, is how pre preg gets delivered. I presume they just ship it in a roll at normal room temp via priority mail/courier and that you put it back in the freezer as soon as it arrives to prolong its life? My concern is that I am in Melbourne Australia, so may potentially have a few days travel time between there dispatch and getting it in the freezer here. Any experiences or tips in this area that could be passed on would be greatly appreciated.

I probably need to get all my other ducks lined up before I order that to insure that I have the maximum time available before stuff starts going off.

I’m sure I will have more questions shortly, just want to make sure they are good ones and not waste everyone’s time or be spoon feed.

Regards Ryan

[f1rob]

Hi Ryan ,
As already posted easy comp started as carbon mods a few years ago
They really researched the suppliers before they started I gave them some more leads the first time the did the kit car show at Stoneleigh.
Don't think they made a lot of money as carbon mods an they would of been slaughtered if they had tried to go into the mainstream composite market ! But they were clever enough to realise there was a market for materials for the DIY market
Almost every single item they sell is avalible from the original supplier if you know where to look,thou some have minimum orders
For material try SHD Steve an his guys REALLY know their stuff and worked at ACG for many years,they source their own carbon an formulate their own resin systems.
They are very helpful and still prepared to deal with the little guy
For consumables try Vac innovation again 2 VERY helpful guys who know where to source almost anything you will need
Over here if its mtm or high temp material its usually overnighted
If its LTM then its refrigerated lorry or overnighted packed in dry ice
Have you read kieth noakes books ?
Bit dated now but still very good

[ezakimak]

Yes, I have Kieth Noaks book, have also order Tony Southgate's book as well. Struggling to think of anyone else that may have writen anythin in the last 10 years that may be relevant

Will have to look into the supply chain. Have had stuff arrive from usa/uk in 24hrs. Have also had stuff take 2 months.

Thanks again.