Integrale 16v, evo 1 or 2??

[1750jb]

Apologies if this is an old question, but as someone who's been interested in buying a good integrale for a while now, can anyone tell me why it's the non-homologation evo 2 cars that are considered more valuable than the earlier cars?? I can understand that the 8v cars are a very different experience than the subsequent cars, but surely the 16v and evo 1 cars are more credible than the 'road car only' evo 2?? My understanding is that the power output was increased on the evo 2s to compensate for an increase in weight, with the performance remaining exactly the same - not cool!
And not only that, but the model specific (and stunning) evo 1 recaros were replaced with fairly standard alcantara covered 'recaro speeds' as found in all sorts of '90s wagons. Again, not cool!
Am I missing something special about the evo 2s?

[Jamo12t]

I'm sure I'll get corrected but the Evo 2's are more desirable because they are last of the line, they were built in a different factory and it's commonly thought that this factory screwed them together slightly better! The wheels were upgraded to 16" with the roof gutters being updated to body colour. Turbo was changed to a smaller unit that allows it to spin up quicker but came with a cat so most people believe the Evo 1's actually have more power than the Evo 2's.

Interior is interesting because a lot of people I've met seem to prefer the Evo 2 highbacks, certainly one of the reasons I went for a 2 rather than a 1.

Other changes included a new momo steering wheel, alloy petrol filler cap, twin coils and painted rocker cover.

Sure there were lots of small technical changes to the car - best to look at evocorner forum for more specifics:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum/messages

Thanks

James

[viggyp]

Jamo12t said:

I'm sure I'll get corrected but the Evo 2's are more desirable because they are last of the line, they were built in a different factory and it's commonly thought that this factory screwed them together slightly better! The wheels were upgraded to 16" with the roof gutters being updated to body colour. Turbo was changed to a smaller unit that allows it to spin up quicker but came with a cat so most people believe the Evo 1's actually have more power than the Evo 2's.

Interior is interesting because a lot of people I've met seem to prefer the Evo 2 highbacks, certainly one of the reasons I went for a 2 rather than a 1.

Other changes included a new momo steering wheel, alloy petrol filler cap, twin coils and painted rocker cover.

Sure there were lots of small technical changes to the car - best to look at evocorner forum for more specifics:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum/messages

Thanks

James

As spot on as you can get. Evo 2 had more power to compensate for the catalytic converter. Shame the standard Evo 2 came in 3 colours.

[andy-integrale]

Far fewer Evo 2's made too. About 2300 including special editions as against over 6000 Evo 1's

Most people do prefer the high back interior and I understand they are generally a bit better screwed together.

[Evoluzione]

viggyp said:

As spot on as you can get. Evo 2 had more power to compensate for the catalytic converter. Shame the standard Evo 2 came in 3 colours.

He was right, Evo 2s had less power, don't believe the marketing hype.

[stuartmmcfc]

My Evo 2 was very well screwed together, in particularly I was surprisingly impressed with the electrical connections,

[viggyp]

Evoluzione said:

viggyp said:

As spot on as you can get. Evo 2 had more power to compensate for the catalytic converter. Shame the standard Evo 2 came in 3 colours.

He was right, Evo 2s had less power, don't believe the marketing hype.

Were they? I know Evo 1/2 were supposed to have 210/215bhp respectively but do you know the exact power output?? Would be interested to know.

[DeltonaS]

viggyp said:

Evoluzione said:

viggyp said:

As spot on as you can get. Evo 2 had more power to compensate for the catalytic converter. Shame the standard Evo 2 came in 3 colours.

He was right, Evo 2s had less power, don't believe the marketing hype.

Were they? I know Evo 1/2 were supposed to have 210/215bhp respectively but do you know the exact power output?? Would be interested to know.

The Supersprint website has a performance graph of a standard Evo 2 which says I believe 196 hp.

[DeltonaS]

1750jb said:

Apologies if this is an old question, but as someone who's been interested in buying a good integrale for a while now, can anyone tell me why it's the non-homologation evo 2 cars that are considered more valuable than the earlier cars?? I can understand that the 8v cars are a very different experience than the subsequent cars, but surely the 16v and evo 1 cars are more credible than the 'road car only' evo 2?? My understanding is that the power output was increased on the evo 2s to compensate for an increase in weight, with the performance remaining exactly the same - not cool!
And not only that, but the model specific (and stunning) evo 1 recaros were replaced with fairly standard alcantara covered 'recaro speeds' as found in all sorts of '90s wagons. Again, not cool!
Am I missing something special about the evo 2s?

EVO 1's and 2's are basically the same cars, with the expception of the (mostly cosmetic) details already mentioned. There are by the way also special editions of the Evo 1's which have the High back Recaro seats; Verde York, Martini 5 and Club Italia (I believe the latter two were also EVO 1's).

And if I'm not mistaken the weight difference can be totally explained by the aircon. system which was a standard item on the EVO 2 and optional on the EVO 1.

[Evoluzione]

viggyp said:

Evoluzione said:

viggyp said:

As spot on as you can get. Evo 2 had more power to compensate for the catalytic converter. Shame the standard Evo 2 came in 3 colours.

He was right, Evo 2s had less power, don't believe the marketing hype.

Were they? I know Evo 1/2 were supposed to have 210/215bhp respectively but do you know the exact power output?? Would be interested to know.

A Cat saps power, the EVO 2 has a pair fitted and a smaller turbo, that was never going to make more power than one with a bigger turbo and no Cat. I have stood next to quite a few on an honest dyno and had a few side by side road tests so I can assure you that this is correct.
You can't be exact to the 1 BHP as we are talking about chassis dynos and 20+yr old cars, the only way would be to get two new ones on the same dyno on the same day and test them in an identical fashion, or on an engine dyno which is of course unlikely to happen.

The other point worthy of note is that the very same engine, turbo, ECU map was put into the Coupe 16vt with one less Cat, that was claimed to do 195bhp....

[Omaruk]

The Evo 2 had twin coil packs for ignition
The early Evo 1 had the far cooer Intercooler spray system this was triggered when overboost was activated.

Edited by Omaruk on Tuesday 3rd March 14:27