Unleaded petrol

[Rosanne]

Hello again,
I have just bought my 17 year old daughter her first car.....A 1961 FORD ANGLIA!! The man we bought it from said we had to put in an additive to the tank when filling with unleaded petrol.......in this morning's Daily Telegraph Motoring Supplement their motoring journalist states that he's been told by an officiL of this club that "he has run his cars (presumably Anglias) on unleaded petrol for years with no harm"......does this mean do you think, that it is perfectly OK to run an Anglia on unleaded petrol without using an additive?

Many thanks

[Slidingpillar]

Read this:
http://www.mg-tabc.org/library/leadfree.htm

If you don't do high revs perhaps, but I'd be adding a suitable lead substitute.

[Andy 308GTB]

Slidingpillar said:

Read this:
http://www.mg-tabc.org/library/leadfree.htm

If you don't do high revs perhaps, but I'd be adding a suitable lead substitute.

I think the information in those articles is correct but was published almost 15 years ago. On a recent thread on this forum, it was stated that the unleaded petrol has moved on since 2001 and the need for additives was questioned. It would be great if this could be confirmed.

[woodytype S]

Petrol additives are a waste of money.

[TooMany2cvs]

woodytype S said:

Petrol additives are a waste of money.

Bit sweeping...

There's three basic problems from using modern petrol in something older.

- Octane. Four star was 98RON, modern unleaded is 95. If it pinks, use super unleaded or adjust the timing. I can't imagine this'll be a big problem on an Anglebox.

- Lead. Valve seat recession can be a problem in engines with the seats cut straight into cast iron heads. Use a lead-replacement additive (FBHVC list ones that they've tested and proven), or get the head machined and hardened seats fitted. After nearly 30yrs of ubiquitous unleaded, it's either spent all that time in a barn, or it won't be a problem on this car. If the seats do recede, get the inserts fitted.

- Ethanol. No way around this. Just replace any vulnerable parts of the fuel-system with ethanol-safe materials.

[Slidingpillar]

Andy 308GTB said:

I think the information in those articles is correct but was published almost 15 years ago. On a recent thread on this forum, it was stated that the unleaded petrol has moved on since 2001 and the need for additives was questioned. It would be great if this could be confirmed.

While I do know the writer of the article (a well qualified oil company chemist), I'm not going to bother him with the question! The fact is, engines that need harder valve seats are no longer mainstream, and many that needed them, have now had harder inserts put in. That coupled with the lead memory effect and the fact seat softness differed with some engines' valve seats being almost hard enough, meant unless they were raced, were unlikely to suffer from valve seat recession.

[N Dentressangle]

We use this in a 1984 Mini:

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/castrol-valve...

A few bottles will last you ages.

If you find it pinks, the 'plus' version includes an octane booster if you can't be bothered adjusting the timing.

[a8hex]

TooMany2cvs said:

...
- Ethanol. No way around this. Just replace any vulnerable parts of the fuel-system with ethanol-safe materials.

This can also cause other issues, see the discussion from the start of the year about boiling points.
It can also "go off" more quickly than tradishinal petrol which is a problem with cars than don't get used regularly or are laid up over winter.

[dpp]

N Dentressangle said:

We use this in a 1984 Mini:

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/castrol-valve...

A few bottles will last you ages.

If you find it pinks, the 'plus' version includes an octane booster if you can't be bothered adjusting the timing.

I also use this in my 1975 Vauxhall, differing opinions on whether it is needed but as it lasts so long I would rather use it than chance wrecking my valve seats.

BTW great to see a youngster in a classic, I offered to restore something for my daughter but she wasn't interested and calls my Vauxhall the deathmobile because its so basic and has no rear seatbelts.

[dpp]

N Dentressangle said:

We use this in a 1984 Mini:

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/castrol-valve...

A few bottles will last you ages.

If you find it pinks, the 'plus' version includes an octane booster if you can't be bothered adjusting the timing.

I also use this in my 1975 Vauxhall, differing opinions on whether it is needed but as it lasts so long I would rather use it than chance wrecking my valve seats.

BTW great to see a youngster in a classic, I offered to restore something for my daughter but she wasn't interested and calls my Vauxhall the deathmobile because its so basic and has no rear seatbelts.

[Hooli]

N Dentressangle said:

We use this in a 1984 Mini:

http://www.wilko.com/car-maintenance/castrol-valve...

A few bottles will last you ages.

If you find it pinks, the 'plus' version includes an octane booster if you can't be bothered adjusting the timing.

I used to use the plus in my Midget when I had it, it stopped pinking & the car felt perkier. It was worth it for that, even if it didn't protect valves.

[grumpy52]

As stated in previous replies the main problem will be octane rate rather than the lack of "lead" , super unleaded is preferred .I think I may have read that many supermarket filling stations use higher ethanol content , this may be the main problem for classic or older engines .

[Riley Blue]

"I think I may have read..."

I'll quote the Tesco Momentum specification page at http://www.tescopfs.com/our-fuel/specifications :

Oxygenates Content
Methanol %(v/v) - 3.0
Ethanol %(v/v) - 5.0
Iso-propyl alcohol %(v/v) - 10.0
Iso-butyl alcohol %(v/v) - 10.0
Tert-butyl alcohol %(v/v) - 7.0
Ethers (5 or more C atoms) %(v/v) - 15.0
Other oxygenates %(v/v) - 10.0

It's my fuel of choice for my '63 Riley.

[TooMany2cvs]

grumpy52 said:

I think I may have read that many supermarket filling stations use higher ethanol content

5% is the legal maximum, unless the fuel's clearly labelled as E10 (10%). You might find something that's less than 5%, but it's unlikely and unpredictable.

[jagracer]

This is an old Anglia so it wont have an overly high compression ratio so ordinary unleaded will suffice with a lead supplement added, I use Castrol Valvemaster Plus in my MGB (it has a converted head) and my race car although I do use 98/99 octane in the latter as it's a higher compression ratio.

OP Do you know if the head has been converted to run unleaded, if not you could either put a tank of leaded petrol in every few thousand miles or replace the head with a lead converted one, it'll cost peanuts in the grand scheme of things, a 105E head has got to be one of the most common and plentiful heads going. If it is converted then you needn't put anything in.

Edited by jagracer on Monday 16th March 17:41

[windy1]

Do what I did and don't waste your money:

Take head off and get the exhaust valve seats replaced. It's only a 20 min job to get the head off a pre-xflow or xflow, they are really simple engines. A good engine machine shop should be able to put the valve seats in for you for around £100.
Knock the timing back to avoid detonation with 95 RON unleaded (in case you can't get 97 RON super unleaded).
I run my car on super unleaded all the time because most of the fuel companies still don't blend ethanol into super unleaded, only the regular 95 RON unleaded fuel has it.