Ranking Hot Hatches / Small Coupes by Driving Fun
Discussion
I'm looking to buy something fun with the following conditions. [b] Please please only rank cars you've actually driven [b], not those you've just read reviews of.
1) Should cost not more than £5000, either outright or though PCH over 2 years. So cars like the new Fiesta ST are in scope. I would also consider cars up to £15,000 that are unlikely to lose more than £5000 over 2 years.
2) Should be able to carry 2 adults and 2 children (under 8 years) on an infrequent basis.
Do not worry about running costs or fuel consumption (20mpg+ is fine) but I'd prefer it was not a car that requires constant tinkering - reasonable day to day reliability.
The cars I've thought of but not driven are: 2013+ Ford Fiesta ST, Ford Puma 1.7, BMW 325ti Compact, Honda Integra Type R
1) Should cost not more than £5000, either outright or though PCH over 2 years. So cars like the new Fiesta ST are in scope. I would also consider cars up to £15,000 that are unlikely to lose more than £5000 over 2 years.
2) Should be able to carry 2 adults and 2 children (under 8 years) on an infrequent basis.
Do not worry about running costs or fuel consumption (20mpg+ is fine) but I'd prefer it was not a car that requires constant tinkering - reasonable day to day reliability.
The cars I've thought of but not driven are: 2013+ Ford Fiesta ST, Ford Puma 1.7, BMW 325ti Compact, Honda Integra Type R
Current car Celica GT4 when the turbo kicks in brings a smile to your face, handling is very sure and gives confidence (maybe feels too safe at time) not many about so pretty exclusive 20mpg having fun easily seats 2 + 2 and decent boot space. Great Forum Celica club for help. Talk on the OC the prices are rising so be quick and you could earn some money after a couple of years.
Next car i really enjoyed was Clio 1*2 Loved my 172 on a twisty back road was a proper point and shoot car it really did feel like it was on rails. Power all over the rev range and always an enjoyable drive 30+ mpg all day long on a spirited run. Reliability was only down side.
Hope this is what your looking for.
Next car i really enjoyed was Clio 1*2 Loved my 172 on a twisty back road was a proper point and shoot car it really did feel like it was on rails. Power all over the rev range and always an enjoyable drive 30+ mpg all day long on a spirited run. Reliability was only down side.
Hope this is what your looking for.
Thanks Kentao, some left field suggestions there, I've driven a Clio 200 and preferred the drive to a GT86, I suspect the 172/182 are more old skool (a preference) but maybe too fragile? Celica is probably a little older / too much of a tinkerers car but certainly something I'd not previously considered
I'd say either an R53 Mini Cooper S, or an EP3 Civic Type R.
I had one of each of these, and enjoyed both of them for different reasons.
The Mini has great handling, the charger whine is addictive, but, it was far too small for me.
The Civic, again, I thought the handling was great, others think it numb. The engine & gearbox make the car. Drive one hard and it makes sense. Only got rid of mine as my annual mileage jumped up.
I had one of each of these, and enjoyed both of them for different reasons.
The Mini has great handling, the charger whine is addictive, but, it was far too small for me.
The Civic, again, I thought the handling was great, others think it numb. The engine & gearbox make the car. Drive one hard and it makes sense. Only got rid of mine as my annual mileage jumped up.
Very left field suggestion, but talking from personal experience, Smart Forfour Brabus. 180BHP. (Roughly).
Claimed 0-60 figures of around 6.5secs.
Cheap insurance (MSM specialist Smart), 1.5 Turbo, full leather, A/C etc.
You'd get a decent low mileage one well under £5,000.
Very under-rated, also unique, only 250 or so of them sold in the UK.
Claimed 0-60 figures of around 6.5secs.
Cheap insurance (MSM specialist Smart), 1.5 Turbo, full leather, A/C etc.
You'd get a decent low mileage one well under £5,000.
Very under-rated, also unique, only 250 or so of them sold in the UK.
Thanks guys, I'd noticed the Brabus before and wondered quite what they were like. What is the steering / general handling like?
The R53 Cooper S is certainly intriguing but they seem to be going up in price?! (is £5k enough to get a good one anymore?) Is this because the engines are less chocolate than the later model? Maybe I should try to try an EP3 too, the commentary about numbness worry me but I absolutely loved my old 1989 CRX 1.6i-16 back in the day!
The R53 Cooper S is certainly intriguing but they seem to be going up in price?! (is £5k enough to get a good one anymore?) Is this because the engines are less chocolate than the later model? Maybe I should try to try an EP3 too, the commentary about numbness worry me but I absolutely loved my old 1989 CRX 1.6i-16 back in the day!
For cars that I have owned for fun that fit your criteria:
1. Civic Type R EP3
Best engine and gearbox, really responds well to being driven hard. Steering is a little vague to begin with but is very quickly adjusted to. Handling is excellent, it feels very 'light on it's feet' whilst managing to feel grippy at the same time.
Hugely grin inducing on a blast and in everyday driving it can very civilised too. Big boot, loads of space for 2 kids etc.
2. Mini Cooper S R53
Great noise from the charger, feels very small and is good fun to chuck around tighter bends. Grip is possibly a little better that the Civic but the ride is far less forgiving. Space is minimal and for 2 kids could be a problem but if you like the way the interior is laid out then it is a nice place to be, wasn't to my taste really. The fun factor of this car probably outweighed the practically by some way.
3. Clio 182
A good all rounder, not as quick as the Civic or nice sounding as the MCS, but they are great fun to chuck around. Handling is good and very adjustable on the limit. Condition of cars varies hugely and mine wasn't great, build quality and reliability letting it down a fair bit along with a lot of other niggly issues.
As a daily they are well equipped with Cruise, Climate etc, the only issue being the electrics for these things can go wrong. A little more spacious than Mini but not my much and the interior is a bit cheap looking in comparison to the others.
4. Ford Puma Millennium
The slowest of the selection but very good in it's own right. Handling is brilliant and at lower speeds probably the most fun. Engine sounds good and definitely feels every bit as powerful as you would expect from 125bhp. Gearbox has a very nice feel but the ratios are very long. Probably the cheapest to buy and maintain but it will show in the quality. The Millennium edition has great heated leather Recaros if you can put up with yellow paint? :P I would say this car is a class below the others, but it is due to it being so good in it's own field that is should be considered.
A Wildcard choice would be a 106 Gti? Easily the most fun to drive but lets itself down with saftey for carrying children and they are getting difficult to find in good condition.
Hope this was of some use?
I personally prefer the Honda but they are all very good so you wouldn't go far wrong with any
1. Civic Type R EP3
Best engine and gearbox, really responds well to being driven hard. Steering is a little vague to begin with but is very quickly adjusted to. Handling is excellent, it feels very 'light on it's feet' whilst managing to feel grippy at the same time.
Hugely grin inducing on a blast and in everyday driving it can very civilised too. Big boot, loads of space for 2 kids etc.
2. Mini Cooper S R53
Great noise from the charger, feels very small and is good fun to chuck around tighter bends. Grip is possibly a little better that the Civic but the ride is far less forgiving. Space is minimal and for 2 kids could be a problem but if you like the way the interior is laid out then it is a nice place to be, wasn't to my taste really. The fun factor of this car probably outweighed the practically by some way.
3. Clio 182
A good all rounder, not as quick as the Civic or nice sounding as the MCS, but they are great fun to chuck around. Handling is good and very adjustable on the limit. Condition of cars varies hugely and mine wasn't great, build quality and reliability letting it down a fair bit along with a lot of other niggly issues.
As a daily they are well equipped with Cruise, Climate etc, the only issue being the electrics for these things can go wrong. A little more spacious than Mini but not my much and the interior is a bit cheap looking in comparison to the others.
4. Ford Puma Millennium
The slowest of the selection but very good in it's own right. Handling is brilliant and at lower speeds probably the most fun. Engine sounds good and definitely feels every bit as powerful as you would expect from 125bhp. Gearbox has a very nice feel but the ratios are very long. Probably the cheapest to buy and maintain but it will show in the quality. The Millennium edition has great heated leather Recaros if you can put up with yellow paint? :P I would say this car is a class below the others, but it is due to it being so good in it's own field that is should be considered.
A Wildcard choice would be a 106 Gti? Easily the most fun to drive but lets itself down with saftey for carrying children and they are getting difficult to find in good condition.
Hope this was of some use?
I personally prefer the Honda but they are all very good so you wouldn't go far wrong with any
Every time this type of thread comes up, I want to suggest a Ford Puma, but I feel they are a bit too old now. Most have copious amounts of rust and are just old tech (nearly a 20 year old car now).
But, they are great at what they were intended for. Buzzy engine, excellent and predictable handling, with a fantastic gear change and great steering feel.
Lack of pace and poor brakes grind after a while though.
I'd have another if I had space and funds to run a fourth vehicle.
But, they are great at what they were intended for. Buzzy engine, excellent and predictable handling, with a fantastic gear change and great steering feel.
Lack of pace and poor brakes grind after a while though.
I'd have another if I had space and funds to run a fourth vehicle.
Great feedback! thanks Billy especially. Really sounds like I need to check out a few Civics...
Not so many worries about carrying kids as we have at least one other car for that, just nice to have the option.
I have a Caterham for tinkering and really want a daily driver that just works - sounds like Renaults are out.
Not so many worries about carrying kids as we have at least one other car for that, just nice to have the option.
I have a Caterham for tinkering and really want a daily driver that just works - sounds like Renaults are out.
My girlfriend drives a new Fiesta ST, it's ace, quick, chuckable and great fun to hoon around in, on top of that it's likely to be reliable, cheap enough to run - returning a fair MPG level and not being overly dear on tax, insurance and servicing, it looks great (imo) and the comfort levels aren't bad (but it isn't a wafter so you can't expect miracles).
If you can stretch to leasing one as you mentioned, I would 100% recommend a test drive is possible - a great little car!
If you can stretch to leasing one as you mentioned, I would 100% recommend a test drive is possible - a great little car!
Axionknight said:
My girlfriend drives a new Fiesta ST, it's ace, quick, chuckable and great fun to hoon around in, on top of that it's likely to be reliable, cheap enough to run - returning a fair MPG level and not being overly dear on tax, insurance and servicing, it looks great (imo) and the comfort levels aren't bad (but it isn't a wafter so you can't expect miracles).
If you can stretch to leasing one as you mentioned, I would 100% recommend a test drive is possible - a great little car!
I test drove a ST3 on the weekend and can honestly say it was one of the best cars i've ever driven, fun wise. Hard ride, and cause im chubby the seats take a little moulding too, but other than that, fantastic cars and the engine is a masterpiece. If you can stretch to leasing one as you mentioned, I would 100% recommend a test drive is possible - a great little car!
If you're going to consider cars up to 15K, that won't lose more than 5K I'd say that opens up a lot more scope too.
BMW, Audi, VW - I'm sure there's a good selection in there that won't depreciate that much that quickly.
I quite like the VW Sirocco's - they seem to hold value well and start around 10k+
BMW, Audi, VW - I'm sure there's a good selection in there that won't depreciate that much that quickly.
I quite like the VW Sirocco's - they seem to hold value well and start around 10k+
Certainly sounds like I need to try one (Fiesta ST). I guess I have quite high standards (commuting on a motorbike right now but recently out of a Cayman, with a Caterham in the garage for high days and holidays)but do like a good hot hatch. The most recent one I had was a Mk5 Golf GTI which wasn't bad but just too grown up. I miss the combination of lightweight and modest/ok power of the 1980s hatches and sense that in everyday driving the reasonable weight, quick rack, good chassis and torque of the ST will take me a little closer to that feeling.
I ran the Brabus for just over 12 months & had no real running issues with it.
My brother at the same time had a Cooper S & speed wise i would say they were on par, slightly different power though as the Cooper S was supercharged & the Brabus Turbo'd, i found the Brabus a lot more Raw, the ride is very hard, but it weighs next to bugger all, the Brabus alloys are made of cheese though & dent easily, it didn't bother me too much as during pot hole season i had a pair of Volvo wheels on it & then in the summer but the Brabus alloys back on.
The Cooper S felt a bit more well put together & solid, but the Brabus just felt more on the edge style fun!
It also had 5 doors & the back seats are on runners so you can reduce the boot space to create more rear leg room.
The only negative is that you really notice the power decrease with more than 2 people in it, but on your own it's great fun.
My brother at the same time had a Cooper S & speed wise i would say they were on par, slightly different power though as the Cooper S was supercharged & the Brabus Turbo'd, i found the Brabus a lot more Raw, the ride is very hard, but it weighs next to bugger all, the Brabus alloys are made of cheese though & dent easily, it didn't bother me too much as during pot hole season i had a pair of Volvo wheels on it & then in the summer but the Brabus alloys back on.
The Cooper S felt a bit more well put together & solid, but the Brabus just felt more on the edge style fun!
It also had 5 doors & the back seats are on runners so you can reduce the boot space to create more rear leg room.
The only negative is that you really notice the power decrease with more than 2 people in it, but on your own it's great fun.
I know it's been said before but I would seriously recommend an EP3. You will have to sift through the bad ones to find a decent one though but it's worth it. The turning circle can be tiresome and it can be a little rough over the bumps on an early morning commute but my god, that engine and gearbox.
If you haven't already, drive one.
In fact, drive a few of your shortlist, our reviews can only guide you and don't do like my friend and buy a 1-series diesel as he was told it was amazing by people and almost falls sleep driving it every day now!
If you haven't already, drive one.
In fact, drive a few of your shortlist, our reviews can only guide you and don't do like my friend and buy a 1-series diesel as he was told it was amazing by people and almost falls sleep driving it every day now!
1. Honda CRX 1.6 (the mk 1 wedge not the later 2 seater).
2. Peugeot 306 S16.
3. Golf GTi Mk 2
I've driven a few much newer hot hatches but they're too complicated to be truly fun imho. The Honda was brilliant. Not that fast in modern terms but simple and truly hands on if you know what I mean. Went around corners like a roller skate.
2. Peugeot 306 S16.
3. Golf GTi Mk 2
I've driven a few much newer hot hatches but they're too complicated to be truly fun imho. The Honda was brilliant. Not that fast in modern terms but simple and truly hands on if you know what I mean. Went around corners like a roller skate.
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