Tenancy Lost key

[surveyor]

Strictly speaking to argue Exclusive Possession no agent should keep keys.. Many do of course and in practice for good reason, but if OP has lost only key it's tough look.

Having said that if the agent wants to change the lock due to security and lost key it is clearly bks as anyone could have made umpteen copies of that key. If they are so worried they should be replacing the locks as a matter of course in which case a lost key makes no difference.

[pork911]

jbsportstech said:

pork911 said:

even if they had another key, the lock would need to be changed if you failed to return the key you had for it


(-ideally all should be security keys, but losing one of them would cost you even more)

I appreciate that we lost the key but the agent was paid to manage the house and turns out all they retained was a back door key which explains why couldn't get in to inspect one day as my other half left a key in the back door.

not very good for an agent being paid to manage the letting.

We are both negligent I lost a key she failed to retain a set of keys just seems I am paying the hole bill!

I am tempted to say lets split the cost as you should of retained a key and lets split the cost but i doubt it will fly. She wants £72 now 60 plus vat,

do you not understand your having lost the key (itself, solely, wholly) means the lock needs changing?

[pork911]

surveyor said:

Strictly speaking to argue Exclusive Possession no agent should keep keys.

keys merely being held by an agent and / or landlord wouldn't affect that at all

[Cyberprog]

If it's Bristol, I have a spare 5-Lever Mortice Deadbolt the OP would be welcome to, with IIRC, 3 keys. FOC, collect from St Werburgh's if you want it between 9-6 tomorrow. Drop me a PM/eMail I upgraded mine to a euro cylinder mortice with my own restricted key system.

[jbsportstech]

pork911 said:

do you not understand your having lost the key (itself, solely, wholly) means the lock needs changing?


I

The key is lost in the move not on a night out.

I agree I lost it the plumbing failed they said a plumber would,be 30 mins he was 2.5 hrs on the day I moves when I arrive she had moved stuff around and I can't find it.

I have accepted the £72 and moved on, if they had kept a key they would,of got one cut

[pork911]

jbsportstech said:

pork911 said:

do you not understand your having lost the key (itself, solely, wholly) means the lock needs changing?


I

The key is lost in the move not on a night out.

I agree I lost it the plumbing failed they said a plumber would,be 30 mins he was 2.5 hrs on the day I moves when I arrive she had moved stuff around and I can't find it.

I have accepted the £72 and moved on, if they had kept a key they would,of got one cut

Cutting a new one won't find the one you lost. Even if they took your word for it that it was lost (why would they take that risk?) neither you nor they can know it won't reappear (or already have been found closer to the property than on a night out )

[jbsportstech]

pork911 said:

Cutting a new one won't find the one you lost. Even if they took your word for it that it was lost (why would they take that risk?) neither you nor they can know it won't reappear (or already have been found closer to the property than on a night out )

Look I understand were you are coming from re security but they have never ever raised security as and issue they need a new lock as the failed to keep a copy of the key and i lost one in the move after we were told by the church we could stay for 12 months they changed their minds.

To be clear its not really issue it lock two on the internal door so to gain entry you would need 3 keys one key does not not comprise security as there is a locked door in front of the and another lock on this door.

[superlightr]

its not up to the agents to keep spare keys. Dont shift the blame. If you didnt give back all the keys thats your fault.

May be sensible if the agents did as it would assist in their own work but I bet its not part of your contract that the do. I do bet that its part of your contract to return all keys and if you dont will have the cost charged to you of new locks.

You did not have to move out with 2 weeks notice. It suited your wishes to do so.

You did not cancel your standing order - whose fault is that?

If im being blunt and direct that because I hear the same type of excuses all the time - its not my fault.

If you really dont think the deduction is justified dispute it with the deposit protection scheme.

[jbsportstech]

superlightr said:

its not up to the agents to keep spare keys. Dont shift the blame. If you didnt give back all the keys thats your fault.

May be sensible if the agents did as it would assist in their own work but I bet its not part of your contract that the do. I do bet that its part of your contract to return all keys and if you dont will have the cost charged to you of new locks.

You did not have to move out with 2 weeks notice. It suited your wishes to do so.

You did not cancel your standing order - whose fault is that?

If im being blunt and direct that because I hear the same type of excuses all the time - its not my fault.

If you really dont think the deduction is justified dispute it with the deposit protection scheme.

I would expect a competent agent to hold a full set of keys fro the landlord in my experience.

The was a water leak on moving day the keys got put into a box by their contractor. I was not at the other house directing the movers I was waiting was stuck waiting for their emergency plumber who was late. These are aggravating factors I don't know in what box the keys got put and I dont know were in my garage that box is which is rammed until my shed goes up.

No we were promised 12 months tenancy but they have designated it for minster of religion so can have it back at two months notice whatever. They wanted me out the end of feb or march there wasnt much choice. I didnt want to rent the house any longer than necessary we had to take the new house by end of feb it didn't suit me it was a condition.

I have accepted the charge.

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 15:20

[superlightr]

jbsportstech said:

superlightr said:

its not up to the agents to keep spare keys. Dont shift the blame. If you didnt give back all the keys thats your fault.

May be sensible if the agents did as it would assist in their own work but I bet its not part of your contract that the do. I do bet that its part of your contract to return all keys and if you dont will have the cost charged to you of new locks.

You did not have to move out with 2 weeks notice. It suited your wishes to do so.

You did not cancel your standing order - whose fault is that?

If im being blunt and direct that because I hear the same type of excuses all the time - its not my fault.

If you really dont think the deduction is justified dispute it with the deposit protection scheme.

I would expect a competent agent to hold a full set of keys fro the landlord in my experience.

The was a water leak on moving day the keys got put into a box by their contractor. I was not at the other house directing the movers I was waiting was stuck waiting for their emergency plumber who was late. These are aggravating factors I don't know in what box the keys got put and I dont know were in my garage that box is which is rammed until my shed goes up.

No we were promised 12 months tenancy but they have designated it for minster of religion so can have it back at two months notice whatever. They wanted me out the end of feb or march there wasnt much choice. I didnt want to rent the house any longer than necessary we had to take the new house by end of feb it didn't suit me it was a condition.

I have accepted the charge.

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 15:20

If you have a fixed 12 month tenancy then its fixed for 12 months. Sounds like you were rolling on a month to month basis from which they can give 2 months notice.

Promised ? as in written promise and in your tenancy agreement or a chat and told that?

I see that you agreed to leave earlier then you had to in the 2 months notice.

Its a pain isnit it when water leaks occur and contractors are late/delayed.

Hopefully your new property will work out for you.

[pork911]

jbsportstech said:

I would expect a competent agent to hold a full set of keys fro the landlord in my experience.

The was a water leak on moving day the keys got put into a box by their contractor. I was not at the other house directing the movers I was waiting was stuck waiting for their emergency plumber who was late. These are aggravating factors I don't know in what box the keys got put and I dont know were in my garage that box is which is rammed until my shed goes up.

No we were promised 12 months tenancy but they have designated it for minster of religion so can have it back at two months notice whatever. They wanted me out the end of feb or march there wasnt much choice. I didnt want to rent the house any longer than necessary we had to take the new house by end of feb it didn't suit me it was a condition.

I have accepted the charge.

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 15:20

tenants should pay for things they don't return, but we've been over that...


seems a bit more flavour here to the 'lost' key,
whose contractor put the keys in one of the boxes?

and are you really saying the keys are in one of the boxes in your garage and you just can't be arsed digging them out?

and this leak on moving day - a burst pipe no where near anything being moved was it?

[jbsportstech]

pork911 said:

tenants should pay for things they don't return, but we've been over that...


seems a bit more flavour here to the 'lost' key,
whose contractor put the keys in one of the boxes?

and are you really saying the keys are in one of the boxes in your garage and you just can't be arsed digging them out?

and this leak on moving day - a burst pipe no where near anything being moved was it?

Using your logic i should pay for a key not a lock! they should of held a key for it in my mind. I am more than happy to pay £5 for a key.

I can't be bothered telling you the whole story as quite frankly your attitude is starting to piss me off you are so off.

They are the church and had a notice in place that said they could demand the house back at 2 months notice as it designated for a vicar. norma ast tenancy does not apply to the church same as they are council tax exempt etc, they can section 21 even in an assured period providing they can convince a court it is needed for minister of religion as it is a curt/vicar house. Turns out they have changed their mind and are selling it!

I am not some lazy ttI had a nightmare move the movers broke have my appliances and furniture, i have moved to smaller house and my garage is rammed!!! the weather has been wind and heavy rain everything time i have gone out and my work is nuts and i have audit this month and need to get ready for it so i can't take time off work.

They had said they would change the lock today but now she has offered to wait i have asked for the weekend to search the garage but i not had a day off yet to go in the garage and search since we discovered the key was missing which is now my preferred option.

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 18:42

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 18:46

[Eleven]

surveyor said:

Strictly speaking to argue Exclusive Possession no agent should keep keys..

I don't think retention of keys is a deciding factor as to whether exclusive possession has been given - Aslan v Murphy [1990].

[pork911]

jbsportstech said:

Using your logic i should pay for a key not a lock! they should of held a key for it in my mind. I am more than happy to pay £5 for a key.

I can't be bothered telling you the whole story as quite frankly your attitude is starting to piss me off you are so off.

They are the church and had a notice in place that said they could demand the house back at 2 months notice as it designated for a vicar. norma ast tenancy does not apply to the church same as they are council tax exempt etc, they can section 21 even in an assured period providing they can convince a court it is needed for minister of religion as it is a curt/vicar house. Turns out they have changed their mind and are selling it!

I am not some lazy ttI had a nightmare move the movers broke have my appliances and furniture, i have moved to smaller house and my garage is rammed!!! the weather has been wind and heavy rain everything time i have gone out and my work is nuts and i have audit this month and need to get ready for it so i can't take time off work.

They had said they would change the lock today but now she has offered to wait i have asked for the weekend to search the garage but i not had a day off yet to go in the garage and search since we discovered the key was missing which is now my preferred option.

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 18:42

Edited by jbsportstech on Thursday 5th March 18:46

whats with the anger, i genuinely have no idea why you can't grasp the issues and are so keen to cling only to what you think they should have done - other than lots of stuff going on in your life etc?


i was only pointing out what is now obvious (and wasn't when you earlier said the key was lost) - anyway, about this leak...

[jbsportstech]

pork911 said:

whats with the anger, i genuinely have no idea why you can't grasp the issues and are so keen to cling only to what you think they should have done - other than lots of stuff going on in your life etc?


i was only pointing out what is now obvious (and wasn't when you earlier said the key was lost) - anyway, about this leak...

After the washing machine was removed and loaded onto the lorry the ball vale failed and since the have lost the stop lock in building extensions I had to shut the water off in the road.

[pork911]

must be my spidey senses, they often do 'fail' in moves;)

yes it must be a nightmare but it sounds like its find the key or pay

best of luck

[Wings]

surveyor said:

Strictly speaking to argue Exclusive Possession no agent should keep keys.. Many do of course and in practice for good reason, but if OP has lost only key it's tough look.

Having said that if the agent wants to change the lock due to security and lost key it is clearly bks as anyone could have made umpteen copies of that key. If they are so worried they should be replacing the locks as a matter of course in which case a lost key makes no difference.

It is very good and normal practice for an agent/landlord to keep a spare set of keys, and since the same need to obtain the tenant/s permission to enter the rental property, there is no breach of "exclusive possession".

You are of course correct to say that "if they are so worried they should be replacing the locks", this being the normal practice I undertake at the end of a tenancy. However where a departing tenant fails to return ALL keys received at the start of a tenancy, or the keys returned "appear" to be a foreign copy of the original key/s, then the departing tenant is charged for either new cylinder/s or lock/s. This point is stated in the tenant/s AST, and sends a message to tenants that security is an important part of this landlord's Duty of Care.

Lastly, I wonder how many landlords have the rental property's electrics and gas checked at the end of a tenancy, i do.

[pork911]

Wings said:

You are of course correct to say that "if they are so worried they should be replacing the locks", this being the normal practice I undertake at the end of a tenancy. However where a departing tenant fails to return ALL keys received at the start of a tenancy, or the keys returned "appear" to be a foreign copy of the original key/s, then the departing tenant is charged for either new cylinder/s or lock/s. This point is stated in the tenant/s AST, and sends a message to tenants that security is an important part of this landlord's Duty of Care.

Lastly, I wonder how many landlords have the rental property's electrics and gas checked at the end of a tenancy, i do.

So given this dearly held duty of your's which presumably extends across tenancies and for your properties, other than being cheap why would you not use security keys and locks?

[22Rgt]

So as well as all the keys lost the ball cock is broken and theres a hole in the bath.
Add to that trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot re the new house sounds a right mare..

[Wings]

pork911 said:

So given this dearly held duty of your's which presumably extends across tenancies and for your properties, other than being cheap why would you not use security keys and locks?

I do on several properties, mainly Ingersoll locks where spare keys are only supplied to a registered person/s. Other properties are mainly with Yale, Union, Legge type nightlatches, mortice locks and latches. I also have several key cutting machines, with spare cylinders, locks, latches and lock spindles etc. etc.

By coincidence I had a tenant today lock herself out, I am working at a property in the next street, she phones a local locksmith (based 150 feet away from house), who charges her £60 to say the lock needs replacing. Was not the lock, but a worn key, tenant now wants recovery of the locksmith's bill.