Alfa's. Someone explain to me....
Discussion
Ok so Jeremy Clarkson likes them. So does Hammond & May. Super.
Are they really an aspirational brand for an enthusiastic daily driver to own? Looking at some of the specs they seem bloated, slow & from various owner reviews still fragile with more than their share of niggles.
Nice interiors though. Very nice. I'll give them that.
Please explain the allure of the modern Alfa to someone who's never owned one, preferably without mentioning Top Gear as I have done. Twice.
Are they really an aspirational brand for an enthusiastic daily driver to own? Looking at some of the specs they seem bloated, slow & from various owner reviews still fragile with more than their share of niggles.
Nice interiors though. Very nice. I'll give them that.
Please explain the allure of the modern Alfa to someone who's never owned one, preferably without mentioning Top Gear as I have done. Twice.
I've had a 146 twinspark, a 156 V6 and another 156 V6, ok older cars but to get a feel for the brand...
The 146: Looked ok, was practical, electrical reliability was fine, driving position was upright, designed for the shopping mum I think and I didn't like the steering wheel. Handling reflected this. I fitted it with black Momo leather for £120. Best leather this side of a Maserati.
That aside though, the 2 litre twinspark engine was FABULOUS. I kept it well serviced, oiled every 5k and it revved so freely it could have come from a motorbike. Torquey and full of character, it pulled strongly in every gear and made the most amazing noise. Cost £700
The 156(s): Lovely looking car, turns lots of heads, mine after every drive! Nice steering wheel, that leather and a nice driving position. Felt far more special in it than any other runabout I've ever owned. Bought some Rayban Wayfarers to wear especially when in it.
Handles nicely but again, keep an eye on wishbones etc. Electrical reliability was fine.
Now that engine. Where do I start? Oh yes, the noise... At low revs not intrusive but with a sports exhaust the Busso V6 makes you feel like you're in a 1970's Lamborghini the Italian Alps! Amazing.
Not the fastest car, not the best on fuel but solidly reliable and easy to service (except the oil filter
). That said, with a few tweeks (GTa springs/strut bracing/ecu upgrade) they go like the clappers.
If they are serviced properly they are very reliable. Cost £1100/£800
Hope that paints a picture. They just have a certain terrier-like enthusiasm, passionate and relentless. I think Enzo Ferrari raced them before he made his own cars...
The 146: Looked ok, was practical, electrical reliability was fine, driving position was upright, designed for the shopping mum I think and I didn't like the steering wheel. Handling reflected this. I fitted it with black Momo leather for £120. Best leather this side of a Maserati.
That aside though, the 2 litre twinspark engine was FABULOUS. I kept it well serviced, oiled every 5k and it revved so freely it could have come from a motorbike. Torquey and full of character, it pulled strongly in every gear and made the most amazing noise. Cost £700
The 156(s): Lovely looking car, turns lots of heads, mine after every drive! Nice steering wheel, that leather and a nice driving position. Felt far more special in it than any other runabout I've ever owned. Bought some Rayban Wayfarers to wear especially when in it.
Handles nicely but again, keep an eye on wishbones etc. Electrical reliability was fine.
Now that engine. Where do I start? Oh yes, the noise... At low revs not intrusive but with a sports exhaust the Busso V6 makes you feel like you're in a 1970's Lamborghini the Italian Alps! Amazing.
Not the fastest car, not the best on fuel but solidly reliable and easy to service (except the oil filter
). That said, with a few tweeks (GTa springs/strut bracing/ecu upgrade) they go like the clappers.If they are serviced properly they are very reliable. Cost £1100/£800
Hope that paints a picture. They just have a certain terrier-like enthusiasm, passionate and relentless. I think Enzo Ferrari raced them before he made his own cars...
Edited by Oilchange on Saturday 7th March 18:13
I bought my 159 because I needed an estate car that looked good to me, fitted the family in and most importantly wasn't a white painted BMW/Merc/Audi. Not sure what the image of Alfa is to the majority, probably not "aspirational" enough or look at how successful I am but it suits me fine and I love it.
What they are though is relatively sporty cars with decently styled bodywork and, I hate to use the cliche, character.
On the downside the main dealers leave a lot to be desired, thankfully the AR indies are well established and good probably as a direct result of the franchised network. Build quality is probably just average with paintwork weak and trim just OK, but hey the car just works as a whole package.
Not sure where Alfa goes in the future, hope not the way of Lancia so maybe buy in to the brand now and give it a go before it is too late.
What they are though is relatively sporty cars with decently styled bodywork and, I hate to use the cliche, character.
On the downside the main dealers leave a lot to be desired, thankfully the AR indies are well established and good probably as a direct result of the franchised network. Build quality is probably just average with paintwork weak and trim just OK, but hey the car just works as a whole package.
Not sure where Alfa goes in the future, hope not the way of Lancia so maybe buy in to the brand now and give it a go before it is too late.
The current cars with the exception of the 4C are fairly ordinary cars really. Having said that I still own a Giulietta as it's nice car decent spec and decent economy. Does it have the Alfaness of cars gone by? No, however I find the majority of cars quite ordinary and frankly I don't find any of them appealing so an Alfa it is.
Wiki says so, so it must be true
...He left CMN in 1920 to work at Alfa Romeo and racing their cars in local races...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Ferrari
...He left CMN in 1920 to work at Alfa Romeo and racing their cars in local races...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Ferrari
bqf said:
Oh lordy...don't they do history at school any more
Only once ever did my old GTV stir my soul - exiting a roundabout flat out in third, absolutely on the grip limit and convincing myself that I could feel the rear transaxle balancing the weight as the motor screamed towards 7000rpm.
The rest of the time it was a complete mess of mechanical nightmares, leaks that could fill a swimming pool and rust holes I could lose my arm in.
I adored it.
The rest of the time it was a complete mess of mechanical nightmares, leaks that could fill a swimming pool and rust holes I could lose my arm in.
I adored it.
4C is a bit too much of everything.
How difficult can it be to get a modern 2.0l Alfa coupe which weighs around 1300 kg, does 0-60 in around 7 seconds, top speed 140 and so on. Brera for instance - 2.2l engine, 180+ bhp but 0-60 of over 8.5 seconds.
How do they manage to extract such little power out of a 2.2 litre petrol engine? Mind-boggling.
How difficult can it be to get a modern 2.0l Alfa coupe which weighs around 1300 kg, does 0-60 in around 7 seconds, top speed 140 and so on. Brera for instance - 2.2l engine, 180+ bhp but 0-60 of over 8.5 seconds.
How do they manage to extract such little power out of a 2.2 litre petrol engine? Mind-boggling.
Not driven that many lately but I worked in a Fiat/Alfa dealership around 17 years ago and found them pretty underwhelming tbh, average cars with quick steering racks to make them feel 'sporty', preferred the Fiat 20v coupe turbo and the Punto GT's.
I did find the exterior and interior styling of the 156 impressive but unfortunately not very well made with stuff like gear knob decals/trims falling to bits on new low milage cars.
I did find the exterior and interior styling of the 156 impressive but unfortunately not very well made with stuff like gear knob decals/trims falling to bits on new low milage cars.
zygalski said:
How do they manage to extract such little power out of a 2.2 litre petrol engine? Mind-boggling.
When it was sourced from GM it only produced about 145hp, Alfa heavily modified it.The 4C, Giulietta and Mito have to be the best looking cars on sale at the moment, everything else just seems so drab. Its a pity the Mito doesnt drive aswel as it looks, but the Giulietta is much better. The build quality and interior was improved with the 159/Brera/Spider, its a shame the production was shut down and the factory converted for making fiats, as the replacements (Giula) is still a long way off.
For many, modern alfas have lost all the passion and character of old. However there are still glimpses of the past that still shine trhough, styling/looks, driver focus, quick steering racks, attention to detail, the front grille etc. They are promising big things for the future, return to RWD and working more closely with Maserati, lets hope they pull it off..
Edited by davebem on Sunday 8th March 11:08
Owned a 3.0 litre GTV for a few years.
Bundles of character and a car that always drew admiring glances and one I'd often turn to look at after parking up.
Replaced it with a VW Polo which has been excellent, faultless trouble free motoring.
Sooo boring and bland though.
Have just put down a deposit on a 12 plate Giulietta 170bhp diesel veloce.
Can't wait to collect it on Friday!
Technically, it's a car for the missus but...
I personally think that Alfas are a bit quirky, thinking outside the box, form over function and generally pretty stylish.
Bundles of character and a car that always drew admiring glances and one I'd often turn to look at after parking up.
Replaced it with a VW Polo which has been excellent, faultless trouble free motoring.
Sooo boring and bland though.
Have just put down a deposit on a 12 plate Giulietta 170bhp diesel veloce.
Can't wait to collect it on Friday!
Technically, it's a car for the missus but...
I personally think that Alfas are a bit quirky, thinking outside the box, form over function and generally pretty stylish.
With Alfas it isn't just about how fast they go, it's how they make you feel - my Giulietta is a gem of a car and as far removed from classic Alfas like the 105 series Coupes as it is, it still feels 'special' somehow. I test drove a V6 Brera before I bought the Giulietta and still want one, yes they're heavy and the rear end isn't to everyone's taste, but they have a presence that few other modern cars possess. The one I drove felt very well planted and I'd have bought it if it hadn't been for the large gaps in the service history.
A mate of mine is on his second 156, despite his first (a beautiful red SW with 5hole alloys) spending 70% of his ownership off the road. The day he chopped it in he vowed he'd have another one day and he's very happy with the 2.0 saloon he's just bought, with 113k on the clock and a known history it's still a great everyday car, very quick and comfortable to boot.
I can understand why some just don't rate the current Alfa range but I wanted to take that leap into the unknown and I'm glad I did, it's certainly given me a taste for the older cars.
A mate of mine is on his second 156, despite his first (a beautiful red SW with 5hole alloys) spending 70% of his ownership off the road. The day he chopped it in he vowed he'd have another one day and he's very happy with the 2.0 saloon he's just bought, with 113k on the clock and a known history it's still a great everyday car, very quick and comfortable to boot.
I can understand why some just don't rate the current Alfa range but I wanted to take that leap into the unknown and I'm glad I did, it's certainly given me a taste for the older cars.
Edited by P5Nij on Sunday 8th March 16:12
Edited by P5Nij on Sunday 8th March 16:14
a little update here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Scuderia_F...
[footnote]Edited by Oilchange on Sunday 8th March 16:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Scuderia_F...
coetzeeh said:
bqf said:
Oilchange said:
I think Enzo Ferrari raced them before he made his own cars...
Do tell us more!Edited by Oilchange on Saturday 7th March 18:13[/footnote]
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