My son has been scammed

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Discussion

oblio

Original Poster:

5,401 posts

226 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
Hi

My lad in his naivety, put through 3 separate transactions via the craigslist.org website, to buy some cheap iPhones so that he could sell them on. As this was obviously too good to be true, he didn't wait until the first phone arrived before going through the process of "buying" 2 more rolleyes

He entered into conversations via email with the vendors; he also got their sort code and bank account details so that he could transfer the money. He transferred the money from his savings account at Halifax.

Quelle surpise...the goods never arrived and the vendor stopped answering emails!

He contacted the website who are not interested as they are just an intermediary. He spoke with Halifax who said they could do nothing as it was a transfer from a savings account. He went to the Police who didn't take any details and did not appear interested. They gave him a leaflet on fraud so he emailed the email address on that with all the details and they said there was not a lot they could do.

This happened in October and has just come to light now. The kid has lost c£350!

Short of just taking it as a 'life lesson'...is there anything else that can be done to try and recoup his money?

Cheers

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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You could complain to the police a bit more, they may be able to force the bank to give the details of the person the money was sent to if you can convince them it is theft, but this is really a civil matter due to non-completion of a contract.

Caveat Emptor as the saying goes. And TBH that's a better lesson than "you can get what you want if you stamp your feet hard enough".

MrJuice

3,300 posts

155 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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Move on

I paid cash into a chap's account for an eBay purchase. I walked into a fairly well planned fraud. Lost a four figure sum

No one was interested. I found out details of the fraudster but since I voluntarily paid in money, I had nothing against him, legally. And I'm not the type to find him and extract the money forcibly

bitchstewie

50,812 posts

209 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
Curious - how is it civil and not criminal?

craigjm

17,912 posts

199 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
davepoth said:
You could complain to the police a bit more, they may be able to force the bank to give the details of the person the money was sent to if you can convince them it is theft, but this is really a civil matter due to non-completion of a contract.

Caveat Emptor as the saying goes. And TBH that's a better lesson than "you can get what you want if you stamp your feet hard enough".
Its not theft though the kid paid the money across willingly.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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The local police only deal with fraud in limited circumstances so they were right to point him elsewhere. It sounds like criminal fraud to me.

He needs to go here: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

98elise

26,380 posts

160 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Curious - how is it civil and not criminal?
Because they had an agreement to buy/sell phones. The bloke paid, and the goods just have not been supplied yet.

I lost a car in a well timed scam many years ago. In my case the bloke used his own bank account, and I knew his real address. police were uninterested and he is free to continue scamming.


bitchstewie

50,812 posts

209 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
98elise said:
bhstewie said:
Curious - how is it civil and not criminal?
Because they had an agreement to buy/sell phones. The bloke paid, and the goods just have not been supplied yet.

I lost a car in a well timed scam many years ago. In my case the bloke used his own bank account, and I knew his real address. police were uninterested and he is free to continue scamming.
OK I'm honestly not trolling I'd like to know - how is that any different than me nicking something from a local shop or having a tradesman do some work and and if I don't pay or I'm caught simply claiming I mean to pay I just haven't supplied the money yet?

There must be some point at which this becomes outright fraud and criminal surely?

98elise

26,380 posts

160 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
98elise said:
bhstewie said:
Curious - how is it civil and not criminal?
Because they had an agreement to buy/sell phones. The bloke paid, and the goods just have not been supplied yet.

I lost a car in a well timed scam many years ago. In my case the bloke used his own bank account, and I knew his real address. police were uninterested and he is free to continue scamming.
OK I'm honestly not trolling I'd like to know - how is that any different than me nicking something from a local shop or having a tradesman do some work and and if I don't pay or I'm caught simply claiming I mean to pay I just haven't supplied the money yet?

There must be some point at which this becomes outright fraud and criminal surely?
Because when you steal the shop have not agreed to it.

When you handover goods or services you did it freely in exchange for money. If one party dosen't follow through with their end of the bargain its simply a civil matter.

I am staggered too. It was an expensive school day for me.

Edited by 98elise on Sunday 15th March 17:05

Bigyoke

152 posts

131 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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If a payment is made as a result of a false representation its fraud, it doesn't matter how willingly it was handed over.

s2 Fraud Act 2006

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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Report to action fraud - Police wont be interested at the moment. National fraud intelligence bureau will do all of the financial investigations then send results to the force where the fraudster lives for them to deal.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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A valuable life-lesson however it works out.

shovelheadrob

1,564 posts

170 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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It would seem that this is why such "crime" is so prolific, with a very high chance of getting away with it must make it a far more attractive proposition than straight forward robbery. I've got some magic beans for sale if anyone wants to send me a few hundred quid they can have them.

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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shovelheadrob said:
It would seem that this is why such "crime" is so prolific, with a very high chance of getting away with it must make it a far more attractive proposition than straight forward robbery. I've got some Iphone 6s for sale if anyone wants to send me a few hundred quid they can have them.
Replace magic beans with Iphone 6 and you have a legitimate criminal business. How much do you have to con people out of before the police become interested. 3, 4, 5 6,7 or 8 figures?

bitchstewie

50,812 posts

209 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
eldar said:
Replace magic beans with Iphone 6 and you have a legitimate criminal business. How much do you have to con people out of before the police become interested. 3, 4, 5 6,7 or 8 figures?
That's what I was getting at in my previous post. If I post an item and you say you haven't received it then it makes some sense that it's civil.

If I advertise that I have 10 iPhones at £100 each and people give me £1000 but I never had a single iPhone that seems like plain simple criminal fraud to me?

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
That's what I was getting at in my previous post. If I post an item and you say you haven't received it then it makes some sense that it's civil.

If I advertise that I have 10 iPhones at £100 each and people give me £1000 but I never had a single iPhone that seems like plain simple criminal fraud to me?
If I set up a few gumtree and the like accounts and advertise Iphone 6s at £300, and sell these virtual phones, but never deliver the police will say 'civil matter, go away' to the victims. Cool.

Happily, I happen to have a couple of thousand Iphone6/6S/Ipads (unwanted prizes/gifts) for sale to established PHers - at least 6 months membership - at 50% discount. 60% off for plod, as a bonus (need to email a photo of their truncheon to prove it).

Finally, which engine should I specify in the Audi A8 I'm going to order soon?

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
eldar said:
shovelheadrob said:
It would seem that this is why such "crime" is so prolific, with a very high chance of getting away with it must make it a far more attractive proposition than straight forward robbery. I've got some Iphone 6s for sale if anyone wants to send me a few hundred quid they can have them.
Replace magic beans with Iphone 6 and you have a legitimate criminal business. How much do you have to con people out of before the police become interested. 3, 4, 5 6,7 or 8 figures?
Police no longer investigate this type of fraud i.e. where unknown accounts are used or the offender isnt known - its now action frauds job - they have instant access to the financial institutions records- something Police dont have. Action fraud will trace the 'sellers'account and then send a package out to the relevant force to arrest and deal

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
eldar said:
If I set up a few gumtree and the like accounts and advertise Iphone 6s at £300, and sell these virtual phones, but never deliver the police will say 'civil matter, go away' to the victims. Cool.
Or they investigate as a fraud, arrest suspect and secure prosecution, as I and many of my colleagues have done on more than one occasion.

But whatever suits your issues best...

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
Or they investigate as a fraud, arrest suspect and secure prosecution, as I and many of my colleagues have done on more than one occasion.

But whatever suits your issues best...
I'm genuinely glad to hear that. So why go people get told 'it's civil'?

I assume that a single complaint isn't acted on, but multiples are.



Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
quotequote all
eldar said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Or they investigate as a fraud, arrest suspect and secure prosecution, as I and many of my colleagues have done on more than one occasion.

But whatever suits your issues best...
I'm genuinely glad to hear that. So why go people get told 'it's civil'?

I assume that a single complaint isn't acted on, but multiples are.

Often general lack of knowledge in relation to fraud by Police call handlers and some cops