Je Suis Billy Boy - Free Speech in the UK

[Hugo a Gogo]

interesting article
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/je-su...

about this case:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-3...

4 months jail for signing a song is ludicrous, however odious you find the words, and the fact that they are talking about jail for singing 'Rule Britannia' or even 'aggresively blessing yourself' is simply unbelievable

this could only ever be tolerated against football fans, after all everyone knows they are all sub-human

[mybrainhurts]

Bloody hell. He'd have been really for it if he'd been singing a Cliff Richard dirge...

[Turbodiesel1976]

A dangerous precedent and a complete disgrace, I hope this guy appeals

[55palfers]

I despair.

Yet, this charming couple got a suspended sentence

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997499/In...

Neglect of a child is less heinous than singing a dodgy song at the footie.

[Thorodin]

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

[BlackLabel]

Hugo a Gogo said:

interesting article
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/je-su...

Wow.

article said:

How can judges in Scotland behave so tyrannically? Because of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, a repugnant law passed by the Scottish National Party in 2012. This act gives the authorities carte blanche to punish severely any football fan who says something they don’t like. It outlaws sectarian chanting, singing and behaviour at football games, and also on the way to games or in pubs in which games are being shown. It criminalises the ‘expression [of] religious hatred’, wiping out, in one foul swoop, the traditional songs and chants of Rangers and Celtic, who have long mocked each other with scurrilous words.

[JensenA]

Thorodin said:

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

You're missing the point. The point is that those in power, the authorities, are saying that singing a song that is 'politically incorrect' is a worse crime than neglecting a child.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Thorodin said:

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

how about singing 'God Save the Queen'? same things apply
how about 'The Marseillaise'? or 'Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit' or indeed Reveille as you mention


or without the singing; how about the calls for murder and terrorism shouted in the streets that have nothing to do with football and everything to do with actual murder and terrorism?

but that's all 'whataboutery'

that fact is, such a law would never be passed, or enforced, if it wasn't aimed at football fans only

[MrHorsepower]

As much as it pains me to join anything with the slightest hints of a bandwagon, OP, I shall join you.

Am ur Billy Boy.

[SkinnyPete]

Lost for words.

[xjsdriver]

JensenA said:

Thorodin said:

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

You're missing the point. The point is that those in power, the authorities, are saying that singing a song that is 'politically incorrect' is a worse crime than neglecting a child.

Jensen, I think it is you that is missing the point, one of the lines in the song has the line, we're up to our knees in Fenian (used by Rangers fans as a derogatory term for Roman Catholics) blood.
Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.

[glazbagun]

Surely this is like the falsely shouting FIRE!!! in a crowded theatre thing. In which case it's nothing really new. It's religious bigotry written to celebrate violence sung against people you're in the same stadium with.

Edit- XJS beat me to it. IMO the catholic/protstant BS is the worst thing in Scotland, the law seems well focused on dealing with it.

Edited by glazbagun on Monday 16th March 23:59

[Thorodin]

xjsdriver said:

Jensen, I think it is you that is missing the point, one of the lines in the song has the line, we're up to our knees in Fenian (used by Rangers fans as a derogatory term for Roman Catholics) blood.
Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.

Thank you, in fact several points are being missed. It just so happens that in this case it is football. It could be anything that is against the law - it is more about the intent and context than the actual words, inflammatory though they may be to other members of the public at large, or specific targets in particular.

I'm sure that is not lost on regular visitors to these forums - it's just that it's football, the most tribal 'sporting' event in a lot of people's worlds and therefore sacrosanct. This may have started after two or three hours in a pub and become beer goggle bravado but you have to assume the one convicted knew what he was doing and the effect it would have on the supporters of the other side - therefore making it deliberately provocative.

If the protestors and those feigning shock and awe at the penalty stop to consider the cause of a rampage of communal death and destruction might be a just and right thing to legislate against, and in their own social interest, it might dawn that democracy is many things. One is that it is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the decision.

[voyds9]

Come Saturday Rangers opponents will be singing "you're not singing any more"

[Mojocvh]

xjsdriver said:

JensenA said:

Thorodin said:

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

You're missing the point. The point is that those in power, the authorities, are saying that singing a song that is 'politically incorrect' is a worse crime than neglecting a child.

Jensen, I think it is you that is missing the point, one of the lines in the song has the line, we're up to our knees in Fenian (used by Rangers fans as a derogatory term for Roman Catholics) blood.
Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.

As usual along you come with your nutcase views.

[Thorodin]

Just for the record, Fenian was not a derogatory word for anything. It was a name chosen especially for the organisation known as The Fenian Brotherhood by that organisation's founder in America. It was the forerunner of the IRA. The depth of feeling on both sides of this is well enough known and a degree of discretion is possibly a good thing. That isn't censorship, it's respect born of common sense.

[Cyder]

BBC said:

Another man, Alexander Blood, from Saltford in Somerset, was given a community payback order after admitting acting in a racially aggravated manner.

Blood swore at police officers and called them "Jock".

Racially aggravated. Really?

Edited by Cyder on Tuesday 17th March 01:48

[Thorodin]

That's just stupid and probably because it was seen as disrespectful of the police officer. If you speak vehemently to an officer in protest at something he has done and specks of saliva land on him he might call that an assault or spitting at him. Either way - stupid.

[xjsdriver]

voyds9 said:

Come Saturday Rangers opponents will be singing "you're not singing any more"

Which would be funny on several counts, not least because they will have to pen some new ditties to sing at matches - they thought they might romp to victory in the league this season and two little teams from Edinburgh seem intent on keeping them in Division 1 for a further season.

[xjsdriver]

Mojocvh said:

xjsdriver said:

JensenA said:

Thorodin said:

Don't know what the fuss is about. The 'song' wasn't. A song, that is. In the not too distant past it was a rallying cry to arms, a reveille, a clarion call to sectarian murders and torture. In the context of which this 'offence' took place it was designed to provoke a violent reaction from opposing 'fans' and under the law was prohibited. Relations between religious sects (however phoney that conflict may be) are again under great stress and people are running scared about a resurgence of previous social breakdown.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to and these mindless moronic football fans are no exception. Such examples of naked tribalism are thankfully no longer tolerated and football, if there are any 'sporting' people left in the game, will the better for it when such people are banned. If the first line contained any reference to ethnic origin there wouldn't have been any doubt about it being disgraceful. The freedom to associate and express oneself carries with it that other blessing - responsibility.

You're missing the point. The point is that those in power, the authorities, are saying that singing a song that is 'politically incorrect' is a worse crime than neglecting a child.

Jensen, I think it is you that is missing the point, one of the lines in the song has the line, we're up to our knees in Fenian (used by Rangers fans as a derogatory term for Roman Catholics) blood.
Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.

As usual along you come with your nutcase views.

Nothing nutcase about my views, this goes way beyond what is politically correct or otherwise, it is a blight on Scotland. The SFA have had to take action against Rangers FC several times regarding the conduct of their "fans". It is a small minority of small minded bigoted idiots who ruin Rangers good name. It got to the stage where Rangers FC were saying we've done what we can to stop the bigots, so a decision was made to be more pro-active in the courts to stamp out the sectarian chants and singing, which has led to deaths (usually by stabbings).
It is my guess you don't live in Scotland and may not appreciate how serious the situation had become. Or if you do live in Scotland, then you are either totally blind to what's been going on, or are simply a vile apologist for such disgusting behaviour.