So, this other bloke said...

So, this other bloke said...

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Discussion

tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
Was out for dinner last night and found myself seated beside a person with whom I had previously respected due to his successful business career, no-nonsense approach to life, and his not inconsequential wealth.

He’s also previously been a Top Bloke and one who’s opinion I might be inclined to seek in matters ‘current’. Generally speaking he’s on the ball and ‘aware’.

He knows of my interest in cars and the conversation goes something like this...

‘Do you know that if you receive a notice through the post following a speed camera flash, asking for the identity of the driver, and you fill it in, return it, admitting you were the driver but don’t sign it, you won’t get ‘done’?

Huh?

‘Yes, you’ll get a reminder asking that you sign the form; don’t, send it back unsigned.’ ‘You’ll be threatened with prosecution but as the document is unsigned it can’t be used in court, but you have complied with the law.’ (I could be wrong in memory of his actual words but hopefully you’ll take my point.)

Go for it...


Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
I had this same load of crap posted on FB.

The chances of this actually holding water are about the same as a sieve.

un1corn

2,143 posts

136 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
So by complying with the notice and not signing it you're not actually complying with it.

Is this bloke a traffic lawyer?

Thought not.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
Did he also tell you a ticket from a cop is only valid if he has his hat on when he issues it?

tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
un1corn said:
So by complying with the notice and not signing it you're not actually complying with it.

Is this bloke a traffic lawyer?

Thought not.
Are you?

Why should I take your 'knowledge' over his?


I'm not looking for a fight, just a definitive answer - which I guess I already know. Hence the reason for the post.



tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
Did he also tell you a ticket from a cop is only valid if he has his hat on when he issues it?
On that point, well, on a similar one, (AND I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT FFS!) what happens if you refuse to sign a fixed penalty notice at the point of issue?

Serious question, I could do without the sarcasm...



Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
On that point, well, on a similar one, (AND I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT FFS!) what happens if you refuse to sign a fixed penalty notice at the point of issue?

Serious question, I could do without the sarcasm...

The officer will write "refused to sign" on the signature space, and submit it anyway.

Landshark

2,117 posts

180 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
On that point, well, on a similar one, (AND I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT FFS!) what happens if you refuse to sign a fixed penalty notice at the point of issue?

Serious question, I could do without the sarcasm...

Nothing different, it's not an admission of guilt and is a request only. Plenty don't sign it, just write in refused to sign and that's it.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Was out for dinner last night and found myself seated beside a person with whom I had previously respected due to his successful business career, no-nonsense approach to life, and his not inconsequential wealth.

He’s also previously been a Top Bloke and one who’s opinion I might be inclined to seek in matters ‘current’. Generally speaking he’s on the ball and ‘aware’.

He knows of my interest in cars and the conversation goes something like this...

‘Do you know that if you receive a notice through the post following a speed camera flash, asking for the identity of the driver, and you fill it in, return it, admitting you were the driver but don’t sign it, you won’t get ‘done’?

Huh?

‘Yes, you’ll get a reminder asking that you sign the form; don’t, send it back unsigned.’ ‘You’ll be threatened with prosecution but as the document is unsigned it can’t be used in court, but you have complied with the law.’ (I could be wrong in memory of his actual words but hopefully you’ll take my point.)

Go for it...
Tell him to look up Idris Francis.

tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
Mk3Spitfire said:
The officer will write "refused to sign" on the signature space, and submit it anyway.
Thank you.

Are there further consequences along the lines of my original post? Or is the lack of signature completely irrelevant?

Thanks.



Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Thank you.

Are there further consequences along the lines of my original post? Or is the lack of signature completely irrelevant?

Thanks.
Well it would depend what your intention was by not signing it.
I suppose it would come down to the issuing officer standing in the box and saying something along the lines of "yes, your worships, that is indeed the gentleman suspected of committing said offence, in said vehicle at said location on said date and yes the same gentleman who refused to sign my ticket." And then the magistrates decide who they believe.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
The officer will write "refused to sign" on the signature space, and submit it anyway.
Thank you.

Are there further consequences along the lines of my original post? Or is the lack of signature completely irrelevant?

Thanks.
The 172 notice & a FPN are totally different matters.

Re 172 notice, see Idris Francis

Re FPN it's a specimen signature, you don't have to sign & it makes no difference whatsoever.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
didnt some bloke in cheshire make a lot of money from this sort of thing Mr Loophole was his name.

tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all

Thanks, both.


vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
didnt some bloke in cheshire make a lot of money from this sort of thing Mr Loophole was his name.
The door was bolted at ECHR.

ikarl

3,730 posts

198 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
I'm in Scotland, this 'out' was closed in England many years ago, but was a go'er when I done 'said advice' about 7 years ago.

I was going waaaay too fast on the bike, sent back unsigned, plenty of visits from old bill when I wasn't in...timed out after 6 months.

Not sure, but may be completely closed now in Scotland too!??

bingybongy

3,858 posts

145 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Was out for dinner last night and found myself seated beside a person with whom I had previously respected due to his successful business career, no-nonsense approach to life, and his not inconsequential wealth.

He’s also previously been a Top Bloke and one who’s opinion I might be inclined to seek in matters ‘current’. Generally speaking he’s on the ball and ‘aware’.

He knows of my interest in cars and the conversation goes something like this...

‘Do you know that if you receive a notice through the post following a speed camera flash, asking for the identity of the driver, and you fill it in, return it, admitting you were the driver but don’t sign it, you won’t get ‘done’?

Huh?

‘Yes, you’ll get a reminder asking that you sign the form; don’t, send it back unsigned.’ ‘You’ll be threatened with prosecution but as the document is unsigned it can’t be used in court, but you have complied with the law.’ (I could be wrong in memory of his actual words but hopefully you’ll take my point.)

Go for it...

tumble dryer

Original Poster:

1,996 posts

126 months

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Was out for dinner last night and found myself seated beside a person with whom I had previously respected due to his successful business career, no-nonsense approach to life, and his not inconsequential wealth.

He’s also previously been a Top Bloke and one who’s opinion I might be inclined to seek in matters ‘current’. Generally speaking he’s on the ball and ‘aware’.

He knows of my interest in cars and the conversation goes something like this...

‘Do you know that if you receive a notice through the post following a speed camera flash, asking for the identity of the driver, and you fill it in, return it, admitting you were the driver but don’t sign it, you won’t get ‘done’?

Huh?

‘Yes, you’ll get a reminder asking that you sign the form; don’t, send it back unsigned.’ ‘You’ll be threatened with prosecution but as the document is unsigned it can’t be used in court, but you have complied with the law.’ (I could be wrong in memory of his actual words but hopefully you’ll take my point.)

Go for it...
This was circulating a few months ago - whcih was curious as it's from 2002/3. Prior to Mawdsley/Yorke, and Francis (2004)

http://governmentauctionsuk.com/auction-guide-deta...

Discussed here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...