New Venture at The Ring?
Discussion
I would expect a bulletproof insurance policy which will cover not only the car but the associated barrier repairs / stoppage time that you get charged at the 'ring.
I would expect a mechanical 'warranty' of sorts which will absolve the driver of any responsability should the car go wrong in an expensive way, provided certain conditions are met.
I would expect the car to be well maintained with good tread on the tyres in case of rain.
The car should also be fitted with a cage and harnesses.
The company hiring the car should probably have a selection of helmets for hire.
I would expect a mechanical 'warranty' of sorts which will absolve the driver of any responsability should the car go wrong in an expensive way, provided certain conditions are met.
I would expect the car to be well maintained with good tread on the tyres in case of rain.
The car should also be fitted with a cage and harnesses.
The company hiring the car should probably have a selection of helmets for hire.
An insurance policy as you describe would be prohibitively costly.But dont you think the knowledge of being completely covered would lessen the in built safety margin of most people.
All cars would infact be new, so that takes care of two points, tyres/mechanical condition.As for the mechanical insurance, used as an example, if a driver-for whatever reason, engages first at the bottom of Fox Hole causing the box to explode.Who should be liable?
Are roll cages really needed? Again, some would feel indestructable (people still die in caged cars) thinking "it wont matter if I roll it".Yes, it can be some else who causes a roll but its quite rare when considering how many roll free laps are completed during a season.
Helmets are usually supplied by most rental companys.In fact RSR insist on customers waring one (supplied foc)
Thanks for your input btw;)
All cars would infact be new, so that takes care of two points, tyres/mechanical condition.As for the mechanical insurance, used as an example, if a driver-for whatever reason, engages first at the bottom of Fox Hole causing the box to explode.Who should be liable?
Are roll cages really needed? Again, some would feel indestructable (people still die in caged cars) thinking "it wont matter if I roll it".Yes, it can be some else who causes a roll but its quite rare when considering how many roll free laps are completed during a season.
Helmets are usually supplied by most rental companys.In fact RSR insist on customers waring one (supplied foc)
Thanks for your input btw;)
Think it really depends what market you're trying to cater to.
Are you going for a) the "I want to drive one lap of the ring once in a fast car to say I've done it" crowd, or b) the "I'm a track day regular and want to get my ring fix" crowd. They require different things.
a) likely want new-ish performance cars, and aren't concerned about cages, modifications etc.
b) likely aren't nearly as bothered how new a car is, but will absolutely want it to have a cage, and sensible track biased modifications.
With regards to a mechanical "warranty". The situation you describe is exactly what it's in place for. For norm would be to put a rev limit in place, and a continual track of revs, then assuming the driving never breaks the rev limit, they cannot be held responsible for mechanical problems - likely you would be expected to provide an alternate car in this scenario.
Ultimately the more expensive the cars, the more likely people are going to need an insurance policy (and that's why you don't normally see hugely expensive cars to hire on trackdays).
Are you going for a) the "I want to drive one lap of the ring once in a fast car to say I've done it" crowd, or b) the "I'm a track day regular and want to get my ring fix" crowd. They require different things.
a) likely want new-ish performance cars, and aren't concerned about cages, modifications etc.
b) likely aren't nearly as bothered how new a car is, but will absolutely want it to have a cage, and sensible track biased modifications.
With regards to a mechanical "warranty". The situation you describe is exactly what it's in place for. For norm would be to put a rev limit in place, and a continual track of revs, then assuming the driving never breaks the rev limit, they cannot be held responsible for mechanical problems - likely you would be expected to provide an alternate car in this scenario.
Ultimately the more expensive the cars, the more likely people are going to need an insurance policy (and that's why you don't normally see hugely expensive cars to hire on trackdays).
I am struggling to see how you are going to differentiate yourself favourably from the big 3. Why do you expect potential customers to consider using you rather than the established firms with well chosen and proven ranges of cars featuring augmented safety and handling with full insurance cover and supplementary options to reduce the excess? What is your USP?
Apparently all of the cars have been well chosen, all the way upto a P1.
Everything obviously will be insured to the maximum that a vehicle can be insured for.
Just maybe there is still room for another company-heard plenty of moans on here alone about the established company's so, a fresh company with new ideas could go down very well.
As for clients, its a big world out there, thousands of petrol heads from UAE for instance, most of those people dont have spending restrictions apparently.
There are other countries as well to chose from.
Still, its all hyperthetical at the mo, just looking for ideas and feedback, so thanks for yours.
Everything obviously will be insured to the maximum that a vehicle can be insured for.
Just maybe there is still room for another company-heard plenty of moans on here alone about the established company's so, a fresh company with new ideas could go down very well.
As for clients, its a big world out there, thousands of petrol heads from UAE for instance, most of those people dont have spending restrictions apparently.
There are other countries as well to chose from.
Still, its all hyperthetical at the mo, just looking for ideas and feedback, so thanks for yours.
If rich petrol heads in the middle east are your target market, I'd suggest you look at track days in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi to get an idea. Both of these tracks are F1, so have a lot of cache, and clearly much easier for them to get to.
Do these places have track car hire? Do those businesses seem to do well? What type of clients do they cater for? What type of cars to they rent out?
Do these places have track car hire? Do those businesses seem to do well? What type of clients do they cater for? What type of cars to they rent out?
BritishRacinGrin said:
I would expect a bulletproof insurance policy which will cover not only the car but the associated barrier repairs / stoppage time that you get charged at the 'ring.
I would expect a mechanical 'warranty' of sorts which will absolve the driver of any responsability should the car go wrong in an expensive way, provided certain conditions are met.
I would expect the car to be well maintained with good tread on the tyres in case of rain.
The car should also be fitted with a cage and harnesses.
The company hiring the car should probably have a selection of helmets for hire.
Totally agree. I was completely put off ring track car hire by the ludicrous excess on anything half decent, eg e92 M3 about 30k where potentially a fun day out could put you in financial difficulty for a few years. Coupled with the Insurance 'grey areas' where I never got a straight answer what my liability was , eg what happens if someone crashes into me, or i skid off someone else's oil but couldn't prove it, or the engine blew up and wasn't my fault but was no way to tell. Gave up in the end and decided was better just to use my own car for ring track days.I would expect a mechanical 'warranty' of sorts which will absolve the driver of any responsability should the car go wrong in an expensive way, provided certain conditions are met.
I would expect the car to be well maintained with good tread on the tyres in case of rain.
The car should also be fitted with a cage and harnesses.
The company hiring the car should probably have a selection of helmets for hire.
Ahh a thread that I might be able to help on. Having spent the last 7 years in this very trade, I can tell you it's a tricky market to enter into right now. First you've got all the long-established players:
• www.RentRaceCar.de
• www.RSRNurburg.com
• www.Rent4Ring.de
Then you've got the up-and-coming, as well as smaller companies that seem to be popping up like mushrooms.
• www.r-garage.ru(Bigger than it looks! Actually has a s
t-ton of cars, most of them sub-rented by RSR)
• www.biggarage.de(New this year. I •like• this website. EDIT: No idea about the cars, but I saw them a lot on track last year.)
• www.needforring.com (Decent value??? Quite old though)
• www.ring-speed-motorsport.com (More VLN focussed, I think)
• www.jacos-paddock.com(Very experienced, but deliberately small and quite hardcore)
• www.drivethering.com(Looks incredibly dodgy, more below)
I've worked for two of those in that *nominal* top three, and helped various others in the lower list too. As an occasional renter myself (for business purposes, obviously!) I can tell you that there are certain companies in that list that I would •NEVER• rent from. Not until they fix the gaping grey areas in their so-called contracts. If you want to get into the nitty gritty, I did a little guide here. WARNING: It's quite dull for none-Nürburgring geeks.
If you're expecting to rent a car without a multi-thousand excess, forget it. You're dreaming. Harsh, but incredibly true. Customers crash cars and leg it over the fence every year. Legal battles rage across oceans a thousand miles wide. It's a dog-eat-dog world and if the rental companies weren't so awfully harsh, they wouldn't even be there. It's a terrible sign of a skewed supply/demand relationship. Don't hate the players, hate the game. Etc...
Some of the above list show no imagination whatsoever in their product offerings, while others basically leave the customer open to all legal problems and expenses from the moment they leave the shop.
As for the bottom one, Drive The Ring. Wow, it's a like a study in how not to do it. Patently copies RSR's products down to a Tee (rentals, race weekends, autobahn blasts, road tours) while advertising cars it patently doesn't own.
Think I'm over-reacting? They offer you a Cayman. YAY! Cayman. Better than a 911 here, I'd say. Let's look:
Seems legit, right? No photoshop, honest. V6 too (sic, yes I know!)? Available April 1st (very specific date, rings a bell?) Pretty special! Um. Hold on, reverse Google Image search... you can even pay online right now with Paypal! With a donate button and no come-back!
Ahh... not so good. Because the Evo photo is from Gumtree, and the Mini photo is from an owner's forum and apparently lives in Alabama. Should we mention the P1 you're offered on the homepage? Maybe we just don't click that 'pay now' paypal button right away!
So, what I'm saying is...
BUYER BEWARE in the rental market here. Personally, I'd rent from four companies on that list. But you should •READ THE SMALL PRINT• yourself and don't enter into it lightly. And DO NOT think that driving your own car, a mate's car, or even an airport rental will get you off the hook. Although there was an interesting case involving a supermarket carpark recently that might suggest a new precedent that would prevent UK insurers from stitching up customers who crash in silly, none-road locations (such as the Nordschleife).
And if you're thinking of setting up a business renting cars at the Nürburgring:
1) Ensure corporate liabilities are covered
2) Ensure that you can insure the cars and register them for purpose (self-drive rentals on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, during Touristenfahrten). Lots of companies love to 'fudge' this, and they go down like the Titanic with the first big accident or Polizei check.
3) Finally: be prepared to make a huge loss in year one and also be prepared to start with a fair number of cars. (Too few in the fleet, a couple of crashes and one 'leg it over the fence' will be the end of you).
Oh, and I didn't even enter into the fact that the Nürburgring is in flux right now because it's status as a public road is bound to be questioned about 2 weeks after the first fatality of the year.
I still f**king love the place though, and recommend a lap to anybody. True motorsports legend, still available in our nanny-state modern times.
• www.RentRaceCar.de
• www.RSRNurburg.com
• www.Rent4Ring.de
Then you've got the up-and-coming, as well as smaller companies that seem to be popping up like mushrooms.
• www.r-garage.ru(Bigger than it looks! Actually has a s
t-ton of cars, most of them sub-rented by RSR)• www.biggarage.de(New this year. I •like• this website. EDIT: No idea about the cars, but I saw them a lot on track last year.)
• www.needforring.com (Decent value??? Quite old though)
• www.ring-speed-motorsport.com (More VLN focussed, I think)
• www.jacos-paddock.com(Very experienced, but deliberately small and quite hardcore)
• www.drivethering.com(Looks incredibly dodgy, more below)
I've worked for two of those in that *nominal* top three, and helped various others in the lower list too. As an occasional renter myself (for business purposes, obviously!) I can tell you that there are certain companies in that list that I would •NEVER• rent from. Not until they fix the gaping grey areas in their so-called contracts. If you want to get into the nitty gritty, I did a little guide here. WARNING: It's quite dull for none-Nürburgring geeks.
If you're expecting to rent a car without a multi-thousand excess, forget it. You're dreaming. Harsh, but incredibly true. Customers crash cars and leg it over the fence every year. Legal battles rage across oceans a thousand miles wide. It's a dog-eat-dog world and if the rental companies weren't so awfully harsh, they wouldn't even be there. It's a terrible sign of a skewed supply/demand relationship. Don't hate the players, hate the game. Etc...
Some of the above list show no imagination whatsoever in their product offerings, while others basically leave the customer open to all legal problems and expenses from the moment they leave the shop.
As for the bottom one, Drive The Ring. Wow, it's a like a study in how not to do it. Patently copies RSR's products down to a Tee (rentals, race weekends, autobahn blasts, road tours) while advertising cars it patently doesn't own.
Think I'm over-reacting? They offer you a Cayman. YAY! Cayman. Better than a 911 here, I'd say. Let's look:
Seems legit, right? No photoshop, honest. V6 too (sic, yes I know!)? Available April 1st (very specific date, rings a bell?) Pretty special! Um. Hold on, reverse Google Image search... you can even pay online right now with Paypal! With a donate button and no come-back!
Ahh... not so good. Because the Evo photo is from Gumtree, and the Mini photo is from an owner's forum and apparently lives in Alabama. Should we mention the P1 you're offered on the homepage? Maybe we just don't click that 'pay now' paypal button right away!
So, what I'm saying is...
BUYER BEWARE in the rental market here. Personally, I'd rent from four companies on that list. But you should •READ THE SMALL PRINT• yourself and don't enter into it lightly. And DO NOT think that driving your own car, a mate's car, or even an airport rental will get you off the hook. Although there was an interesting case involving a supermarket carpark recently that might suggest a new precedent that would prevent UK insurers from stitching up customers who crash in silly, none-road locations (such as the Nordschleife).
And if you're thinking of setting up a business renting cars at the Nürburgring:
1) Ensure corporate liabilities are covered
2) Ensure that you can insure the cars and register them for purpose (self-drive rentals on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, during Touristenfahrten). Lots of companies love to 'fudge' this, and they go down like the Titanic with the first big accident or Polizei check.
3) Finally: be prepared to make a huge loss in year one and also be prepared to start with a fair number of cars. (Too few in the fleet, a couple of crashes and one 'leg it over the fence' will be the end of you).
Oh, and I didn't even enter into the fact that the Nürburgring is in flux right now because it's status as a public road is bound to be questioned about 2 weeks after the first fatality of the year.
I still f**king love the place though, and recommend a lap to anybody. True motorsports legend, still available in our nanny-state modern times.
Edited by Dale Lomas on Wednesday 25th March 21:44
Oh, and just to add, that Drive The Ring exhibits all the properties of a proper scam, as they just set up a facebook page and might well have bought 400 likes for it. DO NOT CLICK the pay now button until it's confirmed as a real business and somebody sees the metal and reads a contract. ferchristsakes. A functioning 'pay now' button and a few fancy photos... makes my skin crawl!
Edited by Dale Lomas on Wednesday 25th March 22:01
And to add some balance, I just found this while googling for more wannabe rental companies. Who's this wan*er?
Ha, ha, that's me. Still born project. Got the cars, took photos, got insurance, made website, lost money, sold cars, folded company, went back to bed. So, erm, yes. Been there, got the T-Shirt...
Ha, ha, that's me. Still born project. Got the cars, took photos, got insurance, made website, lost money, sold cars, folded company, went back to bed. So, erm, yes. Been there, got the T-Shirt...
Drive the ring? Where does that come into it.Not heard of that one.
Thanks for the imput dale.Yes, it is a very risky venture that requires a very large input of cash/backing and a great deal of thought and planning-hence the original question.
Just for the record, this was born from a conversation with some non european friends who are regular visitors to Germany.The question of how things could possibly be improved (oddly enough the compulsory wearing of a helmet triggered the whole conversation!) Various things like a longer main gate car park to ease the sometimes very overstreched exit, possibly allowing the circuit to remain open during those busy times.Improving public facilities at Brunnchen etcetera.Will it ever happen ? I think theres a good chance just as long as we all keep buying petrol.;)
And the question of how to lessen the fatalities of course.
Thanks for the imput dale.Yes, it is a very risky venture that requires a very large input of cash/backing and a great deal of thought and planning-hence the original question.
Just for the record, this was born from a conversation with some non european friends who are regular visitors to Germany.The question of how things could possibly be improved (oddly enough the compulsory wearing of a helmet triggered the whole conversation!) Various things like a longer main gate car park to ease the sometimes very overstreched exit, possibly allowing the circuit to remain open during those busy times.Improving public facilities at Brunnchen etcetera.Will it ever happen ? I think theres a good chance just as long as we all keep buying petrol.;)
And the question of how to lessen the fatalities of course.
Edited by spadriver on Thursday 26th March 07:33
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