Discussion
Apologies - i'm sure it's been done to death.............
Following a tyre slicing puncture yesterday i'll be getting in some new Continental 4 Seasons. It's my own fault.....I thought to myself during the ride how it'd been ages since a puncture.
Just wondering what people have found who have tried both 23 and 25c. I've been running 23s which can be a bit of a bone shaker on rutted country lanes (100-110psi) and am erring towards replacing with 25s. I'm trying to do 2 x 20 milers a week after work and a longer ride at the weekend - I was on a 40 miler yesterday but am targeting my first 100 sportive this year and wondered if there is a significant comfort/speed difference with the 25's. Just trying to avoid dropping £45 on a pair of 25s only to find I change back to the 23s.
As an aside i'm always heartened by the good will of cyclists when passing a punctured fellow. I was asked by all bar one if I had everything i needed and the one who didn't had slowed and could see I was mid way through a tube swap. If anyone was cycling the path to the side of the cattle grid in Odiham thanks for the offers.
PotOdds
Following a tyre slicing puncture yesterday i'll be getting in some new Continental 4 Seasons. It's my own fault.....I thought to myself during the ride how it'd been ages since a puncture.
Just wondering what people have found who have tried both 23 and 25c. I've been running 23s which can be a bit of a bone shaker on rutted country lanes (100-110psi) and am erring towards replacing with 25s. I'm trying to do 2 x 20 milers a week after work and a longer ride at the weekend - I was on a 40 miler yesterday but am targeting my first 100 sportive this year and wondered if there is a significant comfort/speed difference with the 25's. Just trying to avoid dropping £45 on a pair of 25s only to find I change back to the 23s.
As an aside i'm always heartened by the good will of cyclists when passing a punctured fellow. I was asked by all bar one if I had everything i needed and the one who didn't had slowed and could see I was mid way through a tube swap. If anyone was cycling the path to the side of the cattle grid in Odiham thanks for the offers.
PotOdds
I've switched to 25s. Noticeably more comfortable and just as fast as 23s, in fact tests show they have a lower rolling resistance than 23s.
Worth noting that the true size of different brands' 25s varies. The Conti 4 Seasons size up accurately but their GP4000s is massive, more like 27mm. I'm using the 25mm 4 Season on my winter bike. Great tyre in all conditions - not as supple as a summer tyre so I'll be switching to some new S Works Turbo (24mm) when my summer bike comes out of hibernation.
Worth noting that the true size of different brands' 25s varies. The Conti 4 Seasons size up accurately but their GP4000s is massive, more like 27mm. I'm using the 25mm 4 Season on my winter bike. Great tyre in all conditions - not as supple as a summer tyre so I'll be switching to some new S Works Turbo (24mm) when my summer bike comes out of hibernation.
Ponk said:
You'll like the S-Works Turbos. 
I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
Yep reviews seem favourable, these will be fitted to some wide Reynolds Assault on my race bike. Not expecting a long life out of them and mainly interested in their cornering ability and supposed tubular-feel.I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
nammynake said:
Ponk said:
You'll like the S-Works Turbos.
I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
Yep reviews seem favourable, these will be fitted to some wide Reynolds Assault on my race bike. Not expecting a long life out of them and mainly interested in their cornering ability and supposed tubular-feel.I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
Pot Odds said:
Apologies - i'm sure it's been done to death.............
Following a tyre slicing puncture yesterday i'll be getting in some new Continental 4 Seasons. It's my own fault.....I thought to myself during the ride how it'd been ages since a puncture.
Just wondering what people have found who have tried both 23 and 25c. I've been running 23s which can be a bit of a bone shaker on rutted country lanes (100-110psi) and am erring towards replacing with 25s. I'm trying to do 2 x 20 milers a week after work and a longer ride at the weekend - I was on a 40 miler yesterday but am targeting my first 100 sportive this year and wondered if there is a significant comfort/speed difference with the 25's. Just trying to avoid dropping £45 on a pair of 25s only to find I change back to the 23s.
As an aside i'm always heartened by the good will of cyclists when passing a punctured fellow. I was asked by all bar one if I had everything i needed and the one who didn't had slowed and could see I was mid way through a tube swap. If anyone was cycling the path to the side of the cattle grid in Odiham thanks for the offers.
PotOdds
700 x 25c, or larger volume, every time.Following a tyre slicing puncture yesterday i'll be getting in some new Continental 4 Seasons. It's my own fault.....I thought to myself during the ride how it'd been ages since a puncture.
Just wondering what people have found who have tried both 23 and 25c. I've been running 23s which can be a bit of a bone shaker on rutted country lanes (100-110psi) and am erring towards replacing with 25s. I'm trying to do 2 x 20 milers a week after work and a longer ride at the weekend - I was on a 40 miler yesterday but am targeting my first 100 sportive this year and wondered if there is a significant comfort/speed difference with the 25's. Just trying to avoid dropping £45 on a pair of 25s only to find I change back to the 23s.
As an aside i'm always heartened by the good will of cyclists when passing a punctured fellow. I was asked by all bar one if I had everything i needed and the one who didn't had slowed and could see I was mid way through a tube swap. If anyone was cycling the path to the side of the cattle grid in Odiham thanks for the offers.
PotOdds
When I swapped to 25c 4Seasons on my 'good' road bike, they were so good that I didn't bother with 'summer' tyres that year. I'm currently running 23c Gatorskins on a 1997 steel framed bike, and to be honest, it's a ball-ache (almost literally). Too harsh, too narrow, and lacking grip for the 'cyclo-cross lite' riding I want to do with it. They were what I binned off the good bike to swap to the 25c 4Seasons, and were only fitted to this old bike to protect the rims while it stood for years on the garage floor. I tried to swap the 4Seasons over from my crashed bike, but the 'T-bone' nature of the accident that killed it means that the sidewalls have been torn where the bike was shunted sideways. Buying Continental 4Seasons in 700 x 25c flavour is a PITA at the moment, though...
sjg said:
Tried both. 25 all the way.
Seemingly lots of other people are too as GP4S in 25mm has been sold out everywhere when I've looked.
...and I've found the same, both online and at bricks'n'mortar local shops. If the 38c tyres from the wife's (dead) commute bike won't go on, or are past their prime, I'd get 28c 4Seasons in preference to the 23c. Modern road bikes might not have clearance for them, if frame/fork spacings are tight, but someone on another thread where this subject was discussed (sorry, can't remember who) told me that his 28c Conti 4Seasons tyres actually measured up closer to 26mm when fitted, so it might work for you.Seemingly lots of other people are too as GP4S in 25mm has been sold out everywhere when I've looked.
Seems a fairly unanimous vote for the 25c then.
In case it wasn't clear i'm already a convert to the 4 seasons running them on 23's but really wanted a more comfortable ride if it wasn't too much at the compromise of rolling resistance etc. Seems there's comfort to be had from the 25s at no real cost so will hunt a set down.
Sadly looks like i'll be paying more than my initially suggested £45 as Halfords only have them in stock in 23s ATM.
What sort of pressure are people running their 25's at ? I had my 23's at around 110psi rear and 100 front ?
Thanks all.
PotOdds
In case it wasn't clear i'm already a convert to the 4 seasons running them on 23's but really wanted a more comfortable ride if it wasn't too much at the compromise of rolling resistance etc. Seems there's comfort to be had from the 25s at no real cost so will hunt a set down.
Sadly looks like i'll be paying more than my initially suggested £45 as Halfords only have them in stock in 23s ATM.
What sort of pressure are people running their 25's at ? I had my 23's at around 110psi rear and 100 front ?
Thanks all.
PotOdds
I ran my Conti GP 4Seasons at 100psi, front and rear, at about 85kg "all up weight".
However, I strongly suspect there was room to run them a little lower than that, but old habits die hard, so I kept the pressures high. I should stress, though, that I'm no expert on the subject, and I simply couldn't be bothered with repeatedly testing slightly higher or lower pressures to find the optimum. I put 100psi in them first time out, and it worked OK, comfortable enough and I wasn't sliding about, so I left it like that from then on.
However, I strongly suspect there was room to run them a little lower than that, but old habits die hard, so I kept the pressures high. I should stress, though, that I'm no expert on the subject, and I simply couldn't be bothered with repeatedly testing slightly higher or lower pressures to find the optimum. I put 100psi in them first time out, and it worked OK, comfortable enough and I wasn't sliding about, so I left it like that from then on.
I run both 25's and 23's - 25's all of the way for me. I find the ride quality is better, the extra width gives some extra protection to the rims (I would rather change a tyre than a rim), and there is no real noticeable difference in weight/speed for the tyres I have been running (Senso's).
I have just purchased a pair of Pro3 23's but only because CRC are virtually giving them away!
I have just purchased a pair of Pro3 23's but only because CRC are virtually giving them away!
23 for me on my road bike through spring summer and Autumn then 25 through winter . I prefer the nimbleness of 23 and they feel less draggy on steep climbs out the saddle which I like to ride up
I found 4 seasons great through poor conditions but less so on hot summer days , I found they wore really quick in hot weather then the top layer ripped off when I locked the wheel
I found 4 seasons great through poor conditions but less so on hot summer days , I found they wore really quick in hot weather then the top layer ripped off when I locked the wheel
23mm Open Corsa for me, mounted on my Easton EA70 rims they measure exactly 25mm.
I think wide rims / tyres are slower though, all the talk of lower rolling resistance, everyone seems to have forgotten aerodynamics, I'm way fitter than I was last year, Strava on my mountain bike up hills everywhere I completely smash last years times, put me on my road bike now with tyres that measure 25mm and I can't beat my 30km training loop time I set last year when the bike had narrow 13mm internal section rims and 23mm tyres that mounted measured 21.5mm.
I think wide rims / tyres are slower though, all the talk of lower rolling resistance, everyone seems to have forgotten aerodynamics, I'm way fitter than I was last year, Strava on my mountain bike up hills everywhere I completely smash last years times, put me on my road bike now with tyres that measure 25mm and I can't beat my 30km training loop time I set last year when the bike had narrow 13mm internal section rims and 23mm tyres that mounted measured 21.5mm.
Herman Toothrot said:
23mm Open Corsa for me, mounted on my Easton EA70 rims they measure exactly 25mm.
I think wide rims / tyres are slower though, all the talk of lower rolling resistance, everyone seems to have forgotten aerodynamics, I'm way fitter than I was last year, Strava on my mountain bike up hills everywhere I completely smash last years times, put me on my road bike now with tyres that measure 25mm and I can't beat my 30km training loop time I set last year when the bike had narrow 13mm internal section rims and 23mm tyres that mounted measured 21.5mm.
Too many variables to say why you are slower now. 25mm tyres have been lab tested to show they are faster. Many pros now use 25mm tyres.I think wide rims / tyres are slower though, all the talk of lower rolling resistance, everyone seems to have forgotten aerodynamics, I'm way fitter than I was last year, Strava on my mountain bike up hills everywhere I completely smash last years times, put me on my road bike now with tyres that measure 25mm and I can't beat my 30km training loop time I set last year when the bike had narrow 13mm internal section rims and 23mm tyres that mounted measured 21.5mm.
I recently read a very long and detailed review on the science behind tyres, I think it was one of the Rapha style mags so was significantly more wordey than it needed to be and had lots of arty shots of tyres.
A man in a white lab coat took somewhere in the region of 48 pages to explain that 24mm is the 'ideal' size tyre and should be inflated to 140psi, as long as it was being ridden on perfect tarmac with an 'average' weight rider on it.......also, 23 v 25 is crap as the rotational weight is the most significant factor, so heavy 23mm's will be slower than lightweight 25mm's uphills and on the flats, but the 23mm's will be quicker down the hill.......but, aero plays it's part and 25mm is more aero than 23mm, but 24mm is more aero than 23 or 25mm........
Question is, does any of this REALLY make a difference to the majority of Sunday warriors?
A man in a white lab coat took somewhere in the region of 48 pages to explain that 24mm is the 'ideal' size tyre and should be inflated to 140psi, as long as it was being ridden on perfect tarmac with an 'average' weight rider on it.......also, 23 v 25 is crap as the rotational weight is the most significant factor, so heavy 23mm's will be slower than lightweight 25mm's uphills and on the flats, but the 23mm's will be quicker down the hill.......but, aero plays it's part and 25mm is more aero than 23mm, but 24mm is more aero than 23 or 25mm........
Question is, does any of this REALLY make a difference to the majority of Sunday warriors?
yellowjack said:
...someone on another thread where this subject was discussed (sorry, can't remember who) told me that his 28c Conti 4Seasons tyres actually measured up closer to 26mm when fitted, so it might work for you.
T'was me. The 28c GP4s meausre only 26.1mm on my Aksiums. And it's not just the narrow rims, my 28c GP4000SII summer tyres measure 30.1mm on the same wheels. Both types at 95PSI, btw.Ponk said:
You'll like the S-Works Turbos.
I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
Tried S-Works Turbos in the summer in 24mm on the recommendation of the LBS. They both fell apart within 6 weeks (splits in the side wall with inner tube poking through). When I mentioned it in the LBS the merely shrugged and said - Normalized recommend they are used as a race day tyre only...I'm running 23mm 4 seasons on my winter bike. Wish I'd gone for 25s!
Had Cont GP 4 Seasons since in a 25mm and they have been perfect.
Daveyraveygravey said:
25 Contis here too. If you are patient you can get them in the sales for about half the retail price.
Where?? Its one of the things that I've yet to find a decent deal on. The Cointi 4 seasons and Gatorskins are about £29 each and a bit more for GP4000S. I've run 23s and 25s and I really couldn't tell a lot of difference between the two. I mostly run 23s, so I have decent clearance for mudguards.
Also, I'm a bit perplexed by the 'done shaking ride' statement by the OP. Gatorksins are pretty uncomfortable, but 4 Seasons were much more comfortable. What pressure are you running the 4 seasons? Pressure should be addjusted for rider weight, bike and in some cases road conditions.
Last place I would buy tyres would a LBS. Unless its evans, they are usually just too expensive. I won't pay sticker price for anything in my LBS. I usually force some kind of discount
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