Moto GP - Grand Prix of Qatar - With Spoliers
Discussion
graphene said:
Not sure he is the right choice, but you can't do a decade in or near the top ten in the premier form of motorcycling without being decent. Otherwise, you are saying you don't rate anyone who finished below him during that time, which is fine but leaves you with a fairly small list, not enough for a grid.
He certainly had some battles with Dovi in recent years when they both Ducati riders. I like that he keeps his head down and gets on with it, usually it seems like he lets current teammate make the noise and demands.
But 11 years on two full factory bikes with only 3 wins and 28 podiums is pretty poor, Repsol stuck with him for 4 years till he was gifted the title by Rossi and another 2 years after where he didn't win a race and then 5 years with Ducati with only 3 more podiums.He certainly had some battles with Dovi in recent years when they both Ducati riders. I like that he keeps his head down and gets on with it, usually it seems like he lets current teammate make the noise and demands.
mister_ee said:
But 11 years on two full factory bikes with only 3 wins and 28 podiums is pretty poor, Repsol stuck with him for 4 years till he was gifted the title by Rossi and another 2 years after where he didn't win a race and then 5 years with Ducati with only 3 more podiums.
"Gifted the title by Rossi". f
k me there are some blinkered people on here. Watching the Dani Pedrosa interview, I wasn't sure if he's retired, taking a year off or missing a single race.
Thoughts being, Honda want the manufactures title. If Dani is out for a race then promoting the test rider won't be the end of the world for them.
If he's out for the rest of the year or retired then its a different ball game. Honda would want a rider who can finish as high up as Dani and pick up plenty of points on a regular basis.
This rider would need to know the workings of the RCV Honda, be able to jump on the thing within a weeks notice and straight away finish in the top 5/6.
Starting to think there's only approx 3 riders out there just now capable of this.
Thoughts being, Honda want the manufactures title. If Dani is out for a race then promoting the test rider won't be the end of the world for them.
If he's out for the rest of the year or retired then its a different ball game. Honda would want a rider who can finish as high up as Dani and pick up plenty of points on a regular basis.
This rider would need to know the workings of the RCV Honda, be able to jump on the thing within a weeks notice and straight away finish in the top 5/6.
Starting to think there's only approx 3 riders out there just now capable of this.
LoonR1 said:
mister_ee said:
But 11 years on two full factory bikes with only 3 wins and 28 podiums is pretty poor, Repsol stuck with him for 4 years till he was gifted the title by Rossi and another 2 years after where he didn't win a race and then 5 years with Ducati with only 3 more podiums.
"Gifted the title by Rossi". fk me there are some blinkered people on here. LoonR1 said:
mister_ee said:
But 11 years on two full factory bikes with only 3 wins and 28 podiums is pretty poor, Repsol stuck with him for 4 years till he was gifted the title by Rossi and another 2 years after where he didn't win a race and then 5 years with Ducati with only 3 more podiums.
"Gifted the title by Rossi". fk me there are some blinkered people on here. I don't see him getting anywhere near Dani's bike, not least because of his record mentioned above, but also because of his physical limitations now, plus there are other riders I'm sure HRC would prefer to put on the bike from a long viewpoint.
Much as I'd like to see Redding on it, I don't think he's ready for it. He hasn't made enough of an improvement from last year's bike but hopefully it will come. I think Cal is probably best placed for this right now with a Honda test rider taking his place. Anyone is else is too much of a gamble.
LoonR1 said:
"Gifted the title by Rossi". fk me there are some blinkered people on here.
Rossi had 3 DNF's and (2 races where he only scraped into the points due to crashes/mechanicals) to Haydens 1 DNF and he still only won by 5 pointsk me there are some blinkered people on here. Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
bakerstreet said:
I don't really rate him at all. Employed to help sell Ducatis and Hondas in North America. I actually think he was too nice for MotoGP. IE not aggressive enough on and off track.
Anyways, looking forwward to the announcement of who is going to be on Pedrobots bike
Not aggressive enough off the track?Anyways, looking forwward to the announcement of who is going to be on Pedrobots bike
I'd hardly call marquez aggressive off the bike, not sure any of them you'd be avoiding if you knocked them off.
Right pedrossa replacement of the day, the roman emperor Max Biaggi.
Who wouldn't like a re run off rossi v biaggi ( yes i know it's never going to happen)
LoonR1 said:
He's already compromised on what he said though. He wasn't just quitting MotoGP it was all bikes forever.
He's now tested a lot for Honda and confirmed in the Suzuka 8 hour later this year.
I'm not sure why he's 'compromised'? Since when has changing your mind been a real issue?He's now tested a lot for Honda and confirmed in the Suzuka 8 hour later this year.
Edited by LoonR1 on Monday 30th March 21:11
We all do it, umpteen times a day I'm sure...
graphene said:
mister_ee said:
Rossi had 3 DNF's and (2 races where he only scraped into the points due to crashes/mechanicals) to Haydens 1 DNF and he still only won by 5 points
Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
You can argue with what the stats mean. You have not just presented stats but framed them in way which supports your argument (Hayden beat Rossi on track four times, if you don't exclude random races), and using unproven assertions (such as the bike /must/ finish top 6)Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
The planets may have aligned for Hayden, so to speak, but he had to work through testing, practices and then the seventeen races. From mid season, he just needed to score consistently. You say he was gifted it by Rossi's crash, but actually Pedrosa almost gifted it to Rossi by taking out his teamate in the previous race. Had Hayden finished that race, then the final race drama probably would not have mattered.
graphene said:
mister_ee said:
Rossi had 3 DNF's and (2 races where he only scraped into the points due to crashes/mechanicals) to Haydens 1 DNF and he still only won by 5 points
Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
You can argue with what the stats mean. You have not just presented stats but framed them in way which supports your argument (Hayden beat Rossi on track four times, if you don't exclude random races), and using unproven assertions (such as the bike /must/ finish top 6)Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
The planets may have aligned for Hayden, so to speak, but he had to work through testing, practices and then the seventeen races. From mid season, he just needed to score consistently. You say he was gifted it by Rossi's crash, but actually Pedrosa almost gifted it to Rossi by taking out his teamate in the previous race. Had Hayden finished that race, then the final race drama probably would not have mattered.
graphene said:
Ah, but in that scenario, Edwards would have still finished ahead of Rossi, so Rossi would have taken one less point from that race: Hayden wins the title by one point.
st, never thought of that.He did have a front tyre that delaminated when he was in the lead, I think it was France and then an engine blew to bits when he was also in the lead of another race.
Rossi didn't help himself by falling off for no good reason at the last race though.
I like Haydon and I am pleased that he has won a championship.
graphene said:
Not sure of the details. I know something happened to the front tyre at Laguna, but Rossi wasn't leading. All a bit myterious with tyres around that time.
Just checking the wiki and there were seven different race winnners that year, with Bayliss's cameo at PI and Elias benefiting from the Estoril crashes. Might have to watch the old recordings on Motogp.com
I am just relying on memory, was it sepang when he pitted for a new front tyre?Just checking the wiki and there were seven different race winnners that year, with Bayliss's cameo at PI and Elias benefiting from the Estoril crashes. Might have to watch the old recordings on Motogp.com
3 retirements for Rossi, my head still isn't clear enough for me to dig into the who's and whats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Grand_Prix_motor...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Grand_Prix_motor...
dukeboy749r said:
I'm not sure why he's 'compromised'? Since when has changing your mind been a real issue?
We all do it, umpteen times a day I'm sure...
Compromised as in changed his mind. he said he was quitting racing completely. He's compromised on that decision by agreeing to do Suzuka. We all do it, umpteen times a day I'm sure...
mister_ee said:
Rossi had 3 DNF's and (2 races where he only scraped into the points due to crashes/mechanicals) to Haydens 1 DNF and he still only won by 5 points
Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
What are the stats saying? They say that Hayden did exactly enough to win the Championship, nothing more, nothing less. If you know you just have to finish races in a certain position, then that's what you do. Hayden won 2 races to Rossi's 5
In the races where both finished in the top 6 ( where you would expect a factory bike to be without some kind of problem) Hayden only actually beat Rossi once (at Turkey)
You can't argue with the stats (but I bet you're going to)
I see that you've not chosen to look at it this way "Rossi whilst consistently fast and often winning races was also inconsistent and had a habit of crashing, over exerting his bike. Whereas Hayden rode sensibly, collected points at nearly every round (the one occasion where he didn't he was knocked off by his team mate) and played the long game throughout the season. He demonstrated a maturity missing from Rossi that year"
I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just using the stats to say something else.
LoonR1 said:
What are the stats saying? They say that Hayden did exactly enough to win the Championship, nothing more, nothing less. If you know you just have to finish races in a certain position, then that's what you do.
I see that you've not chosen to look at it this way "Rossi whilst consistently fast and often winning races was also inconsistent and had a habit of crashing, over exerting his bike. Whereas Hayden rode sensibly, collected points at nearly every round (the one occasion where he didn't he was knocked off by his team mate) and played the long game throughout the season. He demonstrated a maturity missing from Rossi that year"
I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just using the stats to say something else.
Wow, I just looked at the stats from the previous year, I forgot just how dominant Rossi was - 17 races, 11 wins, 16 podiums 1 DNF...just wowI see that you've not chosen to look at it this way "Rossi whilst consistently fast and often winning races was also inconsistent and had a habit of crashing, over exerting his bike. Whereas Hayden rode sensibly, collected points at nearly every round (the one occasion where he didn't he was knocked off by his team mate) and played the long game throughout the season. He demonstrated a maturity missing from Rossi that year"
I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just using the stats to say something else.
LoonR1 said:
Compromised as in changed his mind. he said he was quitting racing completely. He's compromised on that decision by agreeing to do Suzuka.
But you'll agree it's not a crime?He didn't 'retire' and then five mins later appear back again. He's (mostly) stayed away and now, for whatever reason, decided he'd do one particular race. Hats off to him.
dukeboy749r said:
LoonR1 said:
Compromised as in changed his mind. he said he was quitting racing completely. He's compromised on that decision by agreeing to do Suzuka.
But you'll agree it's not a crime?He didn't 'retire' and then five mins later appear back again. He's (mostly) stayed away and now, for whatever reason, decided he'd do one particular race. Hats off to him.
The fact is now he's dipped his toe back in, the consideration of a comeback may not actually be so out of the question
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