Comparing F30 330d with E90 335d
Discussion
I borrowed my father's new F31 330d recently for a 200 mile trip involving motorways and fast B roads. We previously had an E92 335d in the family.
Now it might be because I'd literally stepped out of my Audi C6 S6 Avant and judging by the responses above, I am alone with this view, but I thought the engine was dull as dish water. Characterless. It's horribly tractor-like at idle and very low revs - this comes right into the cabin and sounds like some old VAG unit. Fine, once you give it some revs then it reminds you that there is something bigger than a 1.9 TDI 4-pot in there but I was quite surprised given how much better the E92 sounded.
F31 Gearbox - okay it's good but it's still an autobox. The acceleration was brisk but did not have the low down and immediate torque of the E92 335d, which made it such a weapon in day to day driving. I have not checked the figures but my recollection of the E92 was that it was definitely faster. I used to use the paddles in the E92 on b-roads but there really wasn't much need.
iDrive - I never had any problems in the E92 and found it easy to use. People go on about how you need the LCI version but it really wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I thought the new one was a little fiddly but I suspect it's just about getting used to it. The iPhone music streaming in the F31 was nice but I'm just as happy with an Aux in. I'm sure it does lots of interesting and fun things but I was more interested in driving the car.
The F31 (no dynamic sus option) definitely had a better ride than the E92 because it could be dreadful on run-flats. I thought the F31 was actually quite nimble, far more than my S6, although the steering isn't as good as the E92. Suspension is probably a little soft to get overly carried away but then the E92 also had a fair bit of roll when pushing hard although once you learnt to trust it then it could carry some good pace. Neither felt as stiff as the E46 330i sport we had before.
I felt let down by the interior of the F31, particularly going from my Audi, which still felt like a much more expensive and luxurious car even though it was built in 2007. Some quite cheap materials in the 3 series and they aren't exactly cheap once you spec them up. The E92 felt more special because it was a coupe with that cocooned environment but it was better appointed with some Individual stuff so probably not a like for like comparison.
Given the price of the E9x it's a no brainer IMO.
Now it might be because I'd literally stepped out of my Audi C6 S6 Avant and judging by the responses above, I am alone with this view, but I thought the engine was dull as dish water. Characterless. It's horribly tractor-like at idle and very low revs - this comes right into the cabin and sounds like some old VAG unit. Fine, once you give it some revs then it reminds you that there is something bigger than a 1.9 TDI 4-pot in there but I was quite surprised given how much better the E92 sounded.
F31 Gearbox - okay it's good but it's still an autobox. The acceleration was brisk but did not have the low down and immediate torque of the E92 335d, which made it such a weapon in day to day driving. I have not checked the figures but my recollection of the E92 was that it was definitely faster. I used to use the paddles in the E92 on b-roads but there really wasn't much need.
iDrive - I never had any problems in the E92 and found it easy to use. People go on about how you need the LCI version but it really wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I thought the new one was a little fiddly but I suspect it's just about getting used to it. The iPhone music streaming in the F31 was nice but I'm just as happy with an Aux in. I'm sure it does lots of interesting and fun things but I was more interested in driving the car.
The F31 (no dynamic sus option) definitely had a better ride than the E92 because it could be dreadful on run-flats. I thought the F31 was actually quite nimble, far more than my S6, although the steering isn't as good as the E92. Suspension is probably a little soft to get overly carried away but then the E92 also had a fair bit of roll when pushing hard although once you learnt to trust it then it could carry some good pace. Neither felt as stiff as the E46 330i sport we had before.
I felt let down by the interior of the F31, particularly going from my Audi, which still felt like a much more expensive and luxurious car even though it was built in 2007. Some quite cheap materials in the 3 series and they aren't exactly cheap once you spec them up. The E92 felt more special because it was a coupe with that cocooned environment but it was better appointed with some Individual stuff so probably not a like for like comparison.
Given the price of the E9x it's a no brainer IMO.
The Stiglet said:
F31 Gearbox - okay it's good but it's still an autobox. The acceleration was brisk but did not have the low down and immediate torque of the E92 335d, which made it such a weapon in day to day driving. I have not checked the figures but my recollection of the E92 was that it was definitely faster. I used to use the paddles in the E92 on b-roads but there really wasn't much need.
Definitely just you on this one. The 8 speed auto is a fantastic gearbox by any standards, and infinitely better than the old 6 speed in the E9x 335d.What you mention is the instant grunt (or lack thereof) and that's the 30d as opposed to 35d. It's the reason so many of us buy the twin turbo unit, because it is so different to the single turbo unit in the x30d. In that respect i definitely agree; i'd have a 330i over a 330d, but i'd have a 335d over a 330i.
This is a petrol like for like, Jim, but same principle I reckon. I agree and find my E92 335i much more focused as a drivers car for the reasons, expressed more eloquently by the journalists who review the E90, saloon.
I do, however, find the 8 speed auto box better than the 6 speed, that could be enough to push me to a E9X 330d if I could source a manual even though otherwise I would go for the faster car. My car is Pre LCI (prefer the look and the inch or so less in length helps in the garage) and I find the I Drive fine. Good luck.
http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-tes...
The most common assault leveled against the F30 335i involves BMW’s decision to implement electric steering over the celebrated hydraulic setup used since the dawn of man. While the more modern application arguably saves a few microlitres of fuel, it does isolate the driver a bit more from what’s happening where the rubber meets the road.
When driven back to back, there is considerable truth to this. Indeed the newer car simply seems to remove a measure of immediacy and intimacy the driver has with the driving experience. The E90’s steering wheel quivers and buzzes and reacts to the slightest surface change beneath the Bridgestone run-flat tires, while there is a marginally greater disconnect in the F30’s steering. The effort required to turn the newer car’s steering wheel is notably less as well.
The handling remains a strong suit on the new car, and it charges just as hard into sweepers as the previous generation model. That said, I was always aware of the sensation that the F30 is a longer car than the E90 when transitioning from corner to corner.
I do, however, find the 8 speed auto box better than the 6 speed, that could be enough to push me to a E9X 330d if I could source a manual even though otherwise I would go for the faster car. My car is Pre LCI (prefer the look and the inch or so less in length helps in the garage) and I find the I Drive fine. Good luck.
http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-tes...
The most common assault leveled against the F30 335i involves BMW’s decision to implement electric steering over the celebrated hydraulic setup used since the dawn of man. While the more modern application arguably saves a few microlitres of fuel, it does isolate the driver a bit more from what’s happening where the rubber meets the road.
When driven back to back, there is considerable truth to this. Indeed the newer car simply seems to remove a measure of immediacy and intimacy the driver has with the driving experience. The E90’s steering wheel quivers and buzzes and reacts to the slightest surface change beneath the Bridgestone run-flat tires, while there is a marginally greater disconnect in the F30’s steering. The effort required to turn the newer car’s steering wheel is notably less as well.
The handling remains a strong suit on the new car, and it charges just as hard into sweepers as the previous generation model. That said, I was always aware of the sensation that the F30 is a longer car than the E90 when transitioning from corner to corner.
Edited by Smuler on Wednesday 25th March 12:12
VerySideways said:
The Stiglet said:
F31 Gearbox - okay it's good but it's still an autobox. The acceleration was brisk but did not have the low down and immediate torque of the E92 335d, which made it such a weapon in day to day driving. I have not checked the figures but my recollection of the E92 was that it was definitely faster. I used to use the paddles in the E92 on b-roads but there really wasn't much need.
Definitely just you on this one. The 8 speed auto is a fantastic gearbox by any standards, and infinitely better than the old 6 speed in the E9x 335d.VerySideways said:
Definitely just you on this one. The 8 speed auto is a fantastic gearbox by any standards, and infinitely better than the old 6 speed in the E9x 335d.
What you mention is the instant grunt (or lack thereof) and that's the 30d as opposed to 35d. It's the reason so many of us buy the twin turbo unit, because it is so different to the single turbo unit in the x30d. In that respect i definitely agree; i'd have a 330i over a 330d, but i'd have a 335d over a 330i.
I know it has great reviews and is better than the old 6 speed, not disagreeing there but it's still an auto at the end of the day, which is fine but not particularly involving even if the better choice for the diesels.What you mention is the instant grunt (or lack thereof) and that's the 30d as opposed to 35d. It's the reason so many of us buy the twin turbo unit, because it is so different to the single turbo unit in the x30d. In that respect i definitely agree; i'd have a 330i over a 330d, but i'd have a 335d over a 330i.
Re the twin-turbo setup, I'm looking forward to driving a manual E92 335i petrol to see how that compares soon.
Jim1985 said:
Might as well ask, whats realistic MPG for a pre LCI 335d? Combined and also on a run?
My pre LCI car has averaged 35.18mpg over 71k (now on 122k total) - Official figures are Urban 26.9, Combined 36.7, Extra Urban 46.3, Co2 205g/kmHighest tank average 40.51mpg
Lowest tank average 25.71mpg (IOM Mountain Road....)
Just come back from a trip to Edinburgh and it returned 38.90mpg using the performance when necessary to overtake others...
For context i generally have a 22mile e/w b-road commute with the odd m-way trip
Previous cars have generally achieved within 10% of manufacturers figures so the 335d is doing well.
Jim1985 said:
Might as well ask, whats realistic MPG for a pre LCI 335d? Combined and also on a run?
I recall one memorable weekend going from London to Cornwall and back for a Stag do. Four up, plus accompanying luggage, not hanging around at all - 32mpg. Was enormously impressed with that as you would be too if you'd been there 
Jim1985 said:
What happened to yours? Costly?
I did say 'could' rather than will.Between 90k and 120k miles my 335d needed a crank pulley, the main seal between gearbox and engine replacing, oil leak from the swirl flaps sorting (I had them removed), the red intercooler hose replaced (part alone is £200), glow plugs and controller (not all had failed but makes sense doing them when it is all open) plus the DPF cleaned as it was blocked.
If I was buying a 6 cyl diesel around 100k miles I'd be aware of these items.
Don't assume it will do another 100k with nothing other than oil changes.
Jim1985 said:
Looking at the sheer amount of 130,000mile plus examples (even up at 170,000 and more) is this really the case?
The point as Smashy makes is they COULD start to cost money in repairs beyond 100k miles.Obviously they're not scrap and if repaired will keep on running but if you're unlucky they will cost.
Vee said:
I did say 'could' rather than will.
Between 90k and 120k miles my 335d needed a crank pulley, the main seal between gearbox and engine replacing, oil leak from the swirl flaps sorting (I had them removed), the red intercooler hose replaced (part alone is £200), glow plugs and controller (not all had failed but makes sense doing them when it is all open) plus the DPF cleaned as it was blocked.
If I was buying a 6 cyl diesel around 100k miles I'd be aware of these items.
Don't assume it will do another 100k with nothing other than oil changes.
+1. Just got my 107k e91 330d back from the garage today. Had glow plugs and controller replaced and a severe oil leak dealt with. Not cheap. But these are the first (non-consumables) costs in 3 years and 50k so shouldn't really moan. Every part wears out in time. Great cars. Between 90k and 120k miles my 335d needed a crank pulley, the main seal between gearbox and engine replacing, oil leak from the swirl flaps sorting (I had them removed), the red intercooler hose replaced (part alone is £200), glow plugs and controller (not all had failed but makes sense doing them when it is all open) plus the DPF cleaned as it was blocked.
If I was buying a 6 cyl diesel around 100k miles I'd be aware of these items.
Don't assume it will do another 100k with nothing other than oil changes.
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