UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[Scuffers]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

where did I say the population had increased by 8M?

I said that 8M migrants have come to the UK over the time period.

at the same time, a lot of people have emigrated out, hence the term net migration.

the reason I bring it up is because providing services to migrants costs more, due to many factors from not speaking the language, having poor health care histories, their birth rates being much higher, etc etc etc.

The point I was making is that the numbers used to justify why it's not a fiscal drag on the UK are easily shown to be laughably wrong, the health tourism figure does not even cover the costs of foreign HIV patients, thus it has zero credibility.

like I said before, the way the NHS (and most public services) are setup is not conducive to getting proper financial data out, hence the guesswork and plethora of reports from questionable bodies with their own agenda's.

[NicD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Hang on mo!
you make a questionable statement, then attempt to back it up with a link to population growth.

Where is your evidence that where people come from doesn't matter to public services?

To the contrary, for example, if I go off travelling, then return here, I don't need a new home as I already have one (rented out, or lying idle when I am away).
If someone with TB or HIV arrives, then this is a different proposition to someone healthy and working.
If someone speaks no English and is unemployable, is that the same as one with a sought after skill?

Enough of the knee jerk simplicities please.

[NicD]

Read what I wrote!

I questioned YOUR assertion and gave examples of why it is bullst.
I made none of my own.

Just stick to backing up your own claims.

And as for your experience of hiring skilled foreign software engineers as a proxy for all the immigrants here -

[Scuffers]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

yes, that's right, because the majority of immigrants are highly educated software engineers who have perfect english?

please explain then why local councils spend thousands producing multi-lingual literature, the police & courts spend millions on translator services, etc etc?

[AW111]

I regularly see post on various bits of PH where people are slagging off various groups of britons as unfit, lazy, unemployable, illiterate etc. They are also often accused of having lots of children and living off benefits, and that there are more if them every year.

Are they secret immigrants?

Are they typical of the british benefit benificiary?

[RYH64E]

Scuffers said:

please explain then why local councils spend thousands producing multi-lingual literature, the police & courts spend millions on translator services, etc etc?

I'm not sure that this kind of behaviour can be blamed on the EU, I've never seen the same in any other EU country.

[Scuffers]

AW111 said:

I regularly see post on various bits of PH where people are slagging off various groups of britons as unfit, lazy, unemployable, illiterate etc. They are also often accused of having lots of children and living off benefits, and that there are more if them every year.

Are they secret immigrants?

Are they typical of the british benefit beneficiary?

come again?

The birth statistics are actually one of the clear and easy ones to bottom out, go look it up yourself, migrants are our-breeding indiginus by a factor of 3.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

evidence of what?

are you trying to suggest that the 8 million migrants is not real?

RYH64E said:

Scuffers said:

please explain then why local councils spend thousands producing multi-lingual literature, the police & courts spend millions on translator services, etc etc?

I'm not sure that this kind of behaviour can be blamed on the EU, I've never seen the same in any other EU country.

who said the EU were to blame?

the blame is our interpretation of EU rules, we are the only country in the EU to pursue the rules with such zeal.

the fact is, we are still spending millions on this st, and its done for the (real or perceived) benefit of migrants.

[MGJohn]

The determination of so many not to see any problem with our "open to all" borders policy defies belief. One word sums it up.

UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus are the seeds of long term deeper ever more harmful problems sewn. Our fate is both assured and deserved. Simply a matter of time irrespective of the Referendum whenever that comes to pass.

[Strawman]

Yeats had a good line in doom
"Turning turning in the widening gyre, the falcon can't here the falconer, etc."

This part seems apposite to this thread

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

[Scuffers]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

come again?

how are our borders not open?

Quite apart from any EU passport holder having free access to the UK, (along with any migrants to the EU), our track record on border control is somewhat laughable (have you ever been to Ashford?)

Put simply, we have no idea who is in the country, best guess from our supermarkets is that the official census figure is some 5-8M out.

so, let's have it, where is this proof you speak of?

[rs1952]

I must be ill.

I'm going to agree with Scuffs.

But only this bit...

Scuffers said:

who said the EU were to blame?

the blame is our interpretation of EU rules, we are the only country in the EU to pursue the rules with such zeal.

This simple fact is overlooked by many in UKIP and the Brexit camp. Much of EU legislation comes from Directives which it is then for national governments to implement. And many of those Directives, whilst usually seen by the antis as "imposing" law on us, are frequently things that we as a nation would want to do anyway.

So, in or out of the EU, the true culprits who actually cause most of the excessive regulation will still be there. In Whitehall - still dreaming up new and exciting ways to regulate.

[Devil2575]

UKIP the future: Fade into obscurity. End

[s2art]

Devil2575 said:

UKIP the future: Fade into obscurity. End

SNP the future: Lose referendum, fade into obscurity. End.....

[AW111]

s2art said:

SNP the future: Lose referendum, fade into obscurity. End.....

I'm making no predictions, but SNP now have the hard job of transforming from a protest group to a government.
Interesting times ahead.

[FiF]

rs1952 said:

I must be ill.

I'm going to agree with Scuffs.

But only this bit...

Scuffers said:

who said the EU were to blame?

the blame is our interpretation of EU rules, we are the only country in the EU to pursue the rules with such zeal.

This simple fact is overlooked by many in UKIP and the Brexit camp. Much of EU legislation comes from Directives which it is then for national governments to implement. And many of those Directives, whilst usually seen by the antis as "imposing" law on us, are frequently things that we as a nation would want to do anyway.

So, in or out of the EU, the true culprits who actually cause most of the excessive regulation will still be there. In Whitehall - still dreaming up new and exciting ways to regulate.

I must be ill too, as I am going to agree with rs1952, indeed it's worse than he makes out.

The bit related to implementation of directives covers that part which we are legally required to implement. For some time it's been clear that the open method of communication, as it's known, has resulted in increasing influence via so called soft law. This is by declarations, communications, resolutions, guidelines and special reports by EU institutions, none of them legally binding, but the extent of the implementation or not is down to the individual nation. Equally it may be that some of these are things that we would wish to do in some form, which means there may be no cost saving on government or business and individuals, but a key point that must not be ignored is the shape and extent of that regulation will, hopefully, be in a format which is best fit for UK. Obviously some will have to be completely compatible with wider pan glonal legislation.

[Axionknight]

AW111 said:

I'm making no predictions, but SNP now have the hard job of transforming from a protest group to a government.
Interesting times ahead.

I doubt they will manage it, but the idiots will carry on voting for them in their droves anyway.

[RYH64E]

Scuffers said:

RYH64E said:

Scuffers said:

please explain then why local councils spend thousands producing multi-lingual literature, the police & courts spend millions on translator services, etc etc?

I'm not sure that this kind of behaviour can be blamed on the EU, I've never seen the same in any other EU country.

who said the EU were to blame?

the blame is our interpretation of EU rules, we are the only country in the EU to pursue the rules with such zeal.

the fact is, we are still spending millions on this st, and its done for the (real or perceived) benefit of migrants.

The point is that a lot of problems that are widely perceived as being caused by our membership of the EU are actually of our own making, and could be addressed without leaving. Other EU countries have a much more relaxed attitude towards implentation of unwanted regulations, why shouldn't we do the same?

[Scuffers]

RYH64E said:

The point is that a lot of problems that are widely perceived as being caused by our membership of the EU are actually of our own making, and could be addressed without leaving. Other EU countries have a much more relaxed attitude towards implentation of unwanted regulations, why shouldn't we do the same?

that's a real nutcase way of looking at it that's like saying will ignore the laws because we can't be bothered with them?

Think about it what is the point in having the European Commission lay down all these guidelines rules dictates ect. if nobody to take any notice of them?

Surely that would just make the European Commission redundant ie let's get out of Europe

[AJS-]

I don't buy the zealous enforcement from Whitehall argument. There is plenty of zealous enforcement of rules in France and I dare say other countries too, and they auffer by it. Many there are fed up with it too as evidenced by their rejection of Lisbon and the rise of the deeply anti EU Front Nationale. And France is one country that does relatively well out of EU membership. I'm quite sure the same is true of other countries, and maybe more so.

It's not a "poor Britain" problem, at least from my perspective. It's a simple matter of democratic control of government.

[NicD]

Just another 'benefit' of multicultural Britain:

'Police raids halt scheme where migrants flew to Britain for just ONE DAY to claim benefits'
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/579780/Police-rai...

Unfortunately it is the benefit that taxpayers pay and scammers steal.