UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[Scuffers]

cookie118 said:

Apparently there aren't any-care to present some of yours to back up the scaremongering?

Me?

Scarmongering?

That's the stay in the EU camps modus operandus.

But i digress, back to real numbers, you obviously have nothing then?

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

Me?

Scarmongering?

That's the stay in the EU camps modus operandus.

But i digress, back to real numbers, you obviously have nothing then?

Neither do you-I'm not making stuff up though

[don4l]

Scuffers said:

don4l said:

I'm an immigrant and I only earn £24k.

I also employ 7 people. Do I contribute?

Care to explain?

1 how are you an immigrant? As in when and from where?

2 £24k? Is that what you tell the tax office...

3 i hope not on zero hour contracts?

From Ireland, in 1976. So, I've lived most of my life here, and my kids are English.

The £24k doesn't include dividends.... so I won't claim poverty. The tax office knows everything.

This country has been very good to me.

[zygalski]

Bloody foreigners!

[don4l]

TKF said:

Donal is an Irish immigrant. He's been given the opportunity to better himself but now he wants to pull the ladder up and prevent other immigrants doing the same.

What utter nonsense! I would like to see controlled immigration - which is what existed when I came here.

Do you have a problem with Irish immigrants in general, or is it just me?

[don4l]

TKF said:

Scuffers said:

the public to realise that the lib/lab/con are all doing the same crap with different trimmings?

It's been this way for a couple of decades. What makes you think they'll all suddenly wake up and see through it? UKIP loudly offered the public a "fresh new common sense alternative" and they were rejected en masse. You'll no doubt call them stupid but another suggestion is they heard what was said, didn't like it and voted for a less worse option.

Like it or not the public prefers the lib/lab/con message. And now the public have witnessed a very public party spat including troughing attempts and straight talking Farage not standing by his word. UKIP's message, other than "EU and immigrants are bad, m'kay" is now "yeah, we're exactly the same as the others."

Rejected en masse?

UKIP got more votes than the SNP and LibDems combined.

Edited by don4l on Tuesday 26th May 21:07

[TKF]

don4l said:

Rejected en masse?

UKIP got more votes than the SNP and LibDems combined.

Yes, rejected en masse. Leader rejected, Reckless rejected, 1 seat (held by a person Kippers call a prat)

btw SNP got 50% of the votes where they stood so you can stop rolling that one out.

don4l said:

Do you have a problem with Irish immigrants in general, or is it just me?

No problem with them in general

[anonymous-user]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ukipparty/comments/377zfl/...

Suzanne Evans did an AMA on Reddit, it's interesting to read her comments.

In particular how does this go down with PH'ers?:
“I would have liked to put more environmental and stuff in the manifesto but we don’t have an environment spokesman and the manifesto was mostly tied into the policy areas we already have spokesmen and women for.”

She also said she gets sick of selected candidates making headlines for the wrong reasons and that if the first referendum doesn't go their way they'll ask for another.

[s2art]

Mrr T said:

s2art said:

Immigrants who earn approx £37K plus contribute, less than that and they are a net drain. Not their fault, its our benefits system that produces that result.

Would you like to provide some support for that figure.

Since its higher than the national average wage it means over 50% of the UK population does not support itself. Clearly that is wrong.

See; http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-22...

[MGJohn]

zygalski said:

Bloody foreigners!

Have you noticed, the World's full of 'em...

[MGJohn]

NicD said:

Here you go again, you need to engage your brain before your keyboard

here is the story:
'A charity trustee has been charged with a fraud offence after a huge benefits racket probe involving hundreds of Bangladeshi migrants with European Union passports.

Asma Khanam, 46, of Newbury Park, east London, who is involved with relief organisation Families for Survival UK, was among 13 people arrested as part of the investigation.

The racket is said to involve fraudsters making one-day trips from Italy to attend interviews at Jobcentres for National Insurance numbers.

Families for Survival’s offices in Ilford, east London, were searched by investigators and documents and computers were seized.

The arrests follow an investigation by the Department for Work and Pensions and Redbridge Council into a scam which is thought to have cost taxpayers millions of pounds. It could be one of the largest organised benefits frauds ever uncovered in Britain.

Bangladesh-born migrants alleged to be involved in the racket have arrived in the UK over the past three years after getting EU citizenship in Italy. They are accused of making false housing benefit claims to local councils after obtaining national insurance numbers and moving into new homes. Bogus wage slips were allegedly produced to help with their applications.

Last year Essex Police reported a significant number of Bangladesh-born migrants with Italian passports arriving at London Stansted Airport from Italy. They were armed with appointment letters to attend interviews at job centres in London to obtain National Insurance numbers and had return flights tickets for the same day.

The DWP later identified up to 400 applications for National Insurance numbers had been received from the same address in Bow, east London. The address was one of a number visited during last Tuesday's police operation.

Families for Survival UK is alleged to be one of at least five organisations which provided fraudsters with fake employment details. Two directors of other companies, including a recruitment firm, were also arrested. A number of the companies are alleged not to be trading. Under Government rules, EU nationals are only allowed to claim housing benefit in Britain if they can prove they work here.'
http://benefitfraud.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/hundred...

Things like this are nothing new. Many moons ago, before that organ formerly known as the British Broadcasting Corporation become permeated at every level riddled with terminal pc disease, BBC ran a programme whereby one woman from Africa came here and somehow managed to claim benefits using no less than seventeen different identities! Of course that would be one isolated single such abuse, no others have ever been known.

We're the mugs and there's plenty here who are determined never to see things how they really are and prefer that status quo prevails. They are the biggest Mugs of all. They persistently fail miserably to understand the meaning of the word unsustainable or prefer to ignore it in the hope it will go away.

It will not go away and will get worse, far worse unless we as a nation grow some and take control of the mish-mash of the harm so called "benefits" of EU membership cause. Desperate Dave will never be allowed to get even a small fraction of what is really needed. So the only real solution is to sever the EU parasitical connection.

We've evolved into a Nation excelling at getting far too many things quite simply wrong for far too long. We must stop playing fairly in the shark infested wider world and put the Nation's prime interests in prime position without the EU sticking their harmful oars in!

[Mojocvh]

F

don4l said:

TKF said:

Donal is an Irish immigrant. He's been given the opportunity to better himself but now he wants to pull the ladder up and prevent other immigrants doing the same.

What utter nonsense! I would like to see controlled immigration - which is what existed when I came here.

Do you have a problem with Irish immigrants in general, or is it just me?

Waiting..

[TKF]

Waiting for what?

Anyway it seems the fragrant Janice Atkinson who was suspended last year for fraud hasn't actually been suspended and she's still a UKIP MEP so that UKIP can keep troughing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip...

[Scuffers]

TKF said:

Waiting for what?

Anyway it seems the fragrant Janice Atkinson who was suspended last year for fraud hasn't actually been suspended and she's still a UKIP MEP so that UKIP can keep troughing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip...

TKF said:

Oh, quick, I can't answer the question so I better come up with a diversion!

[TKF]

Donal's question has been answered.

What do we think about the "suspended" Janice then?

[Mr_B]

TKF said:

Donal is an Irish immigrant. He's been given the opportunity to better himself but now he wants to pull the ladder up and prevent other immigrants doing the same.

Do you ever stop and think about what you say, actually means ? So you know he is arguing for controlled immigration of some sort, but seem to suggest he is some how hypocritical to have this opinion, like an immigrant can only support open door immigration because they were allowed in to the UK ? Could you attempt to explain you reasoning behind this ?

[Scuffers]

TKF said:

Donal's question has been answered.

What do we think about the "suspended" Janice then?

I don't.

Afaik, her aid angled for a dodgy receipt, beyond this I don't know what has happened.

I assume it's been/being investigated?

You know better?

[Mrr T]

s2art said:

Mrr T said:

s2art said:

Immigrants who earn approx £37K plus contribute, less than that and they are a net drain. Not their fault, its our benefits system that produces that result.

Would you like to provide some support for that figure.

Since its higher than the national average wage it means over 50% of the UK population does not support itself. Clearly that is wrong.

See; http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-22...

Thanks I was aware of the study which is why I asked to see your data source.

So lets look at the figures in the study:

a) The middle quartile net income is £27k which equates to a gross income of about £32k not the £37k you quote.

b) It may not have been deliberate but I read your post to suggest you where referring to an individuals income of £37k. The incomes quoted in the study are house hold incomes, so refer to two adults not one. I have not rechecked but I believe the study assumed equal incomes so am individual income of £16k per head. Which is below the national average so does now make sense.

c) Its worth considering that even the split on income makes a difference in contribution. So a household with one income of £32k will contribute less than one with 2 incomes of £6K

d) Contribution is defined as the total tax paid by the house hold less the total cost to the state of the benefits received by the household (not the cost of benefits). Since the costs of education and health care are large these factors dominate the cost side of the analysis.This is made clear in the article with is clear the figures are averages, so a household with children, or increasingly pensioners with ill health in the middle quarter will take far more from the state than those without children and in good health who may actually be contributing.

e) The analysis ignores indirect benefits of the household which will generally be include in the contribution of the higher income hose holds.

The study does not mention immigration. However, we can assume immigrants will be younger so will need less health care, and will also tend to be single or if married have no children, then even at an average income of £16k per head are likely to be contributing to the state. Those on average income we can assume will be contributing.

One fact that amuses me is the policy of restricting child benefit to children resident in the UK will mean that a couple receiving child benefit in the UK for a child in their home country maybe contribution to the UK. But, if as a result of the removal of child benefit they decide to bring their children into the UK they are likely to no longer be contributing.

[TTwiggy]

MGJohn said:

Things like this are nothing new. Many moons ago, before that organ formerly known as the British Broadcasting Corporation become permeated at every level riddled with terminal pc disease, BBC ran a programme whereby one woman from Africa came here and somehow managed to claim benefits using no less than seventeen different identities! Of course that would be one isolated single such abuse, no others have ever been known.

This would be an example of something called 'crime' - in this case 'benefit fraud'. It may shock you to learn that various 'crimes' are carried out all day, every day, and often by people who were born in this country.

[TKF]

Mr_B said:

TKF said:

Donal is an Irish immigrant. He's been given the opportunity to better himself but now he wants to pull the ladder up and prevent other immigrants doing the same.

Do you ever stop and think about what you say, actually means ? So you know he is arguing for controlled immigration of some sort, but seem to suggest he is some how hypocritical to have this opinion, like an immigrant can only support open door immigration because they were allowed in to the UK ? Could you attempt to explain you reasoning behind this ?

The sentiment behind his desire to restrict immigration is the same as the British sentiment we had here in the 1970s when he first arrived i.e. No blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

So yeah I think it's hypocritical that he was given the opportunity to better himself but wants to prevent others doing the same. He's been here 40yrs, contributed to society and paid his taxes (we presume) so why not allow others to give it a go?

btw this Australian points system everyone raves about, has anyone tried it? I can only just get in despite a degree and a well paid job. Would anyone else pass it today? Would Don have passed it given his circumstances in 1970's?