Warming up an old Saab Turbo?
Discussion
I've just bought a classic 'full fat' Saab Turbo. It's got a fairly substantial mileage on it, and having never owned a turbo'd petrol car before, I'm a bit unsure about warming up/cooling down and the consequences in a rather tired 30 year old car that was (in it's day) a fairly high performance model.
With other older cars I've always tried to give them 2 minutes between firing up and moving to let oil circulate and the block warm, but with the older generation of turbos I've been told that 5 minutes before putting any load on the engine is preferable and it absolutely must be left to idle for at least 2 minutes after a run before switching off to allow oil to circulate through the turbo and cool it down.
I am finding this a royal pain in the arse, particularly when doing a series of short runs, such as going to the shops, getting petrol etc.
Will I knacker the turbo if I shut it off without cooling down? Does this apply if the turbo hasn't been running on boost (ie <2,500rpm)?
What is the advice of the PH experts?
With other older cars I've always tried to give them 2 minutes between firing up and moving to let oil circulate and the block warm, but with the older generation of turbos I've been told that 5 minutes before putting any load on the engine is preferable and it absolutely must be left to idle for at least 2 minutes after a run before switching off to allow oil to circulate through the turbo and cool it down.
I am finding this a royal pain in the arse, particularly when doing a series of short runs, such as going to the shops, getting petrol etc.
Will I knacker the turbo if I shut it off without cooling down? Does this apply if the turbo hasn't been running on boost (ie <2,500rpm)?
What is the advice of the PH experts?
Do you have the handbook? If so just do what it says in there.
In general though:
There's no need to warm a car up before driving it off, but do drive it gently while it's still warming up. This will take longer than you'll expect, it's the oil temperature that matters not the coolant temperature so even when the coolant is up to temp the oil will lag behind it by a good few minutes.
Even on old turbo engines you only need to let the car idle for a few seconds before switching off unless you've been driving it hard, in which case either drive it gently for the last few minutes of your trip or let it idle for a minute or two, or both.
Take comfort from thinking about it this way- the vast, vast majority of owners will never even have contemplated doing any of the above and yet old Saabs are regarded as being tough as old boots.
In general though:
There's no need to warm a car up before driving it off, but do drive it gently while it's still warming up. This will take longer than you'll expect, it's the oil temperature that matters not the coolant temperature so even when the coolant is up to temp the oil will lag behind it by a good few minutes.
Even on old turbo engines you only need to let the car idle for a few seconds before switching off unless you've been driving it hard, in which case either drive it gently for the last few minutes of your trip or let it idle for a minute or two, or both.
Take comfort from thinking about it this way- the vast, vast majority of owners will never even have contemplated doing any of the above and yet old Saabs are regarded as being tough as old boots.
I've owned a wide variety of 80's/90's turbo cars. Don't rev the crap out of it until it's warm but there's no need to let it sit and idle. That might even be counter productive. After you've been driving it hard it's best to drive it normally for a few minutes rather than just switching it off straight away. There's no need to idle it for ages - just try and avoid switching off with a baking hot turbo full of oil.
Thanks for the replies!
To answer some of the points above:
No handbook - it's had several owners and is ticking towards 200,000 miles! The body is in superb condition with no rust and all original panels, original tool kit etc. but it's showing signs of wear on all the bits that tire with age - moving parts and electrics.
The car was previously owned by a truck engineer who strongly emphasised the need to warm/cool the engine to minimise wear on the turbo when I bought it.
The engine needs a bit of work anyway (valve guides are tired so it smokes like a mofo if left standing for a few days and then started) but I'm going to try to put that off for a while and get the interior and electrics all sorted first. So far I've been replacing various relays, pumps and switches, with a replacement dash coming soon.
I'm just a bit more cautious with the turbo because it's an additional complication that I'm not too familiar with and expensive if it goes wrong!
But I do love getting it on boost in 3rd gear on a country road and shouting TUUUUUURBO a la Clarkson
To answer some of the points above:
No handbook - it's had several owners and is ticking towards 200,000 miles! The body is in superb condition with no rust and all original panels, original tool kit etc. but it's showing signs of wear on all the bits that tire with age - moving parts and electrics.
The car was previously owned by a truck engineer who strongly emphasised the need to warm/cool the engine to minimise wear on the turbo when I bought it.
The engine needs a bit of work anyway (valve guides are tired so it smokes like a mofo if left standing for a few days and then started) but I'm going to try to put that off for a while and get the interior and electrics all sorted first. So far I've been replacing various relays, pumps and switches, with a replacement dash coming soon.
I'm just a bit more cautious with the turbo because it's an additional complication that I'm not too familiar with and expensive if it goes wrong!
But I do love getting it on boost in 3rd gear on a country road and shouting TUUUUUURBO a la Clarkson
What year is it? Iirc the earlier cars had oil cooled garrets which needed a bit more care than the later smoother water cooled Mitsubishis. Either way, just drive gently until fluids are warm and a gentle last couple of minutes before switching off.
My 91 is on 190k on the original turbo.
Enjoy - pics?
My 91 is on 190k on the original turbo.
Enjoy - pics?
danjama said:
For local driving you can set off and switch off within 30 seconds.
For longer or harder drives give it a minute or so to switch off but I just drive off boost for the last few minutes and this negates the need to sit idling.
Also as said give oil 15 minutes or so to warm up.
15 minutes ??For longer or harder drives give it a minute or so to switch off but I just drive off boost for the last few minutes and this negates the need to sit idling.
Also as said give oil 15 minutes or so to warm up.
try 5.
NiceCupOfTea said:
What year is it? Iirc the earlier cars had oil cooled garrets which needed a bit more care than the later smoother water cooled Mitsubishis. Either way, just drive gently until fluids are warm and a gentle last couple of minutes before switching off.
My 91 is on 190k on the original turbo.
Enjoy - pics?
It's an 88 model, so I believe it is a w/c turbo that's fitted. My 91 is on 190k on the original turbo.
Enjoy - pics?
Some pics and a proper write up will follow just as soon as I've got some free time - various work related stuff is taking priority at present. I've been meaning to spend a morning detailing it properly, but I've been flat out for the last month. Whilst writing this I realised that I've done less than 200 miles in it since getting it back in early February! Shocking!
I have always taken it easy for a few minutes.
And also on the way back if im hammering it as soon as i turn onto my estate i slow it right down to maybe 15 mph anyway, by the time its on the drive and ive got the gates closed and the dog comes to greet me its usually a minute or two anyway,
but yes id try and simmer any turbo, just for a minute or so, on the basis that prevention is better than cure,
ps. dont older ones needs their sump cleaning as well?
And also on the way back if im hammering it as soon as i turn onto my estate i slow it right down to maybe 15 mph anyway, by the time its on the drive and ive got the gates closed and the dog comes to greet me its usually a minute or two anyway,
but yes id try and simmer any turbo, just for a minute or so, on the basis that prevention is better than cure,
ps. dont older ones needs their sump cleaning as well?
Back when I had one, I ran for 15-30 seconds, while getting my 'pre flight checks' done and drove off normally, understanding in the community was to keep it off boost until the temp needle is off blue and into the white.
Edit: On the way home, just stay off boost for the last mile or two and give the car a few moments to settle.
Edit: On the way home, just stay off boost for the last mile or two and give the car a few moments to settle.
j4ckos mate said:
I have always taken it easy for a few minutes.
And also on the way back if im hammering it as soon as i turn onto my estate i slow it right down to maybe 15 mph anyway, by the time its on the drive and ive got the gates closed and the dog comes to greet me its usually a minute or two anyway,
but yes id try and simmer any turbo, just for a minute or so, on the basis that prevention is better than cure,
ps. dont older ones needs their sump cleaning as well?
As said, gentle on warm up, gentle on last couple of miles is fine. Certainly no need to sit and idle before setting off.And also on the way back if im hammering it as soon as i turn onto my estate i slow it right down to maybe 15 mph anyway, by the time its on the drive and ive got the gates closed and the dog comes to greet me its usually a minute or two anyway,
but yes id try and simmer any turbo, just for a minute or so, on the basis that prevention is better than cure,
ps. dont older ones needs their sump cleaning as well?
Sump drop advice mainly applies to 9-3 and 9-5 models approx 1998 to 2003 as I understand it, not the earlier models - unless seriously neglected.
On a C900 the sump is the top of the gearbox casing so a sump "drop" would involve engine out and splitting the engine and box!!
Pics please
As with any engine, it's wise to wait until the oil is up to temp before wot is used (remember that will likely be after coolant is up to temp.). Light boost will be OK once water temp needle is moving IMHO,but leave full boost a few mins.
If you are adding gauges, I always think oil temp and pressure are useful, as well as volts for advance warning of alternator issues.
They are pretty robust though and a turbo change isn't that hard.
If you are adding gauges, I always think oil temp and pressure are useful, as well as volts for advance warning of alternator issues.
They are pretty robust though and a turbo change isn't that hard.
hman said:
danjama said:
For local driving you can set off and switch off within 30 seconds.
For longer or harder drives give it a minute or so to switch off but I just drive off boost for the last few minutes and this negates the need to sit idling.
Also as said give oil 15 minutes or so to warm up.
15 minutes ??For longer or harder drives give it a minute or so to switch off but I just drive off boost for the last few minutes and this negates the need to sit idling.
Also as said give oil 15 minutes or so to warm up.
try 5.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff