Renault chief calls Newey a liar
Discussion
Its about to hit the fan big time, Renault chief says the RBR is unstable at the rear and is unhappy that the cars speed is blamed solely on the engine
http://thejudge13.com/2015/03/24/renault-target-ne...
Interesting read
http://thejudge13.com/2015/03/24/renault-target-ne...
Interesting read
VolvoT5 said:
Not buying it. The Renault engine has been the weak-link of the Redbull for years, even when they were dominating they were dog slow in a straight line and had many KERS issues.
I thought they were slow in a straight line because RBR designed a chassis for high downforce so they could get out of DRS range through the twisty stuff before the straights.RBR always ran high downforce, that is well reported. They also very aggressively packaged the kers system, putting aero over reliability.
The renault v8 was acknowledged as the weakest of the big 3 by a small margin, and the best of the 3 re. mapping by a large margin.
IMO RBR are just working an agenda to force change - possibly with them as promotor...
The renault v8 was acknowledged as the weakest of the big 3 by a small margin, and the best of the 3 re. mapping by a large margin.
IMO RBR are just working an agenda to force change - possibly with them as promotor...
VolvoT5 said:
The Renault engine has been the weak-link of the Redbull for years
Wow this is so wide of the mark. The Renault engine was one of the key reasons that they won 4 championships. Clearly not the only reason, but Renault played a huge part in making the blown diffuser so good on those cars. Without Renault they would not have been so unbeatable. I wouldn't say any of the Red Bull cars from 2010 to 2013 had a weak link at all! The engine power/torque of all the manufacturers were very similar during the 2009-2013 era. If you wanted to find weak links in the teams during that time, I wouldn't look at the engine.As for the article, I am glad that they are finally sticking up for themselves. Years of people pinning all the success on Newey instead of the entire team, and instead of Renault who did play a massive part. I think RB need to suck it up, they made the decision to stay with Renault years ago. Renault have indeed messed up, but Horner and HM have been unprofessional.
Edited by RenOHH on Tuesday 24th March 19:03
Horner, with his latest statement criticising Renault, has indicated that there are deficiencies with the Red Bull this year by saying that the engine issues are affecting them more than they are Torro Rosso. The only reason that can be the case is that Torro Rosso have designed a car better suited to the power unit than Red Bull, therefore the Red Bull is not good enough. And Cyril Abiteboul has quite rightly picked that up - Renault have more at stake here than Red Bull, a bad chassis in an F1 car may not put someone off buying a can of fizzy drink but a bad engine in one might put someone off buying a car. On that basis Renault are right to fight back.
Horner needs to learn to keep quiet and be supportive publicly, rather than criticising - that can be done behind closed doors in a constructive way. I don't know what is happening behind the scenes between McLaren and Honda, but the public statements are way better than Horner has managed. Although Horner probably has another agenda to exploit through his close relationship with Ecclestone.
Horner needs to learn to keep quiet and be supportive publicly, rather than criticising - that can be done behind closed doors in a constructive way. I don't know what is happening behind the scenes between McLaren and Honda, but the public statements are way better than Horner has managed. Although Horner probably has another agenda to exploit through his close relationship with Ecclestone.
RenOHH said:
VolvoT5 said:
The Renault engine has been the weak-link of the Redbull for years
Wow this is so wide of the mark. The Renault engine was one of the key reasons that they won 4 championships. Clearly not the only reason, but Renault played a huge part in making the blown diffuser so good on those cars. Without Renault they would not have been so unbeatable. I wouldn't say any of the Red Bull cars from 2010 to 2013 had a weak link at all! The engine power/torque of all the manufacturers were very similar during the 2009-2013 era. If you wanted to find weak links in the teams during that time, I wouldn't look at the engine.As for the article, I am glad that they are finally sticking up for themselves. Years of people pinning all the success on Newey instead of the entire team, and instead of Renault who did play a massive part. I think RB need to suck it up, they made the decision to stay with Renault years ago. Renault have indeed messed up, but Horner and HM have been unprofessional.
Edited by RenOHH on Tuesday 24th March 19:03
Aren't Red Bull backing themselves into a huge corner here?
Falling out spectacularly with Renault will do their performance no good at all.
And they havent got any other engine options, Merc is full up, I doubt Ferrari would supply and they really aren't going to want a Honda.
The car will be even slower of it has no engine at all!
Falling out spectacularly with Renault will do their performance no good at all.
And they havent got any other engine options, Merc is full up, I doubt Ferrari would supply and they really aren't going to want a Honda.
The car will be even slower of it has no engine at all!
MiniMan64 said:
Aren't Red Bull backing themselves into a huge corner here?
Falling out spectacularly with Renault will do their performance no good at all.
And they havent got any other engine options, Merc is full up, I doubt Ferrari would supply and they really aren't going to want a Honda.
The car will be even slower of it has no engine at all!
^ Yes x 4. Falling out spectacularly with Renault will do their performance no good at all.
And they havent got any other engine options, Merc is full up, I doubt Ferrari would supply and they really aren't going to want a Honda.
The car will be even slower of it has no engine at all!
Really dumb move by RB if they don't have another supplier lined up or plan on doing in-house solution......... and even if they did make their own engine it isn't going to be better than Renault's offering for at least a couple of years.
Seems quite strange how things are unfolding for Redbull at the moment. Their dominance was in no small part down to have a super strong team and slick management - yes they made a mega car but they also did everything else better than everyone else too. Now they seem to be total chaos, running around slagging each other off and so on. Vettel must feel incredibly smug to get out at the right time - makes him appear like a genius; leaves one team and they implode and the team he joins suddenly transforms from chaos to happy family overnight.
Almost feel a bit sorry for DR and DK - DR probably thought it was going to be leading a top team and DK thinking he got his big break... now it appears they are going to spend most of the season chasing after the lower end of the top 10 at best.... and they are stuck in the middle of a bun fight between Renault and the senior management!
Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 24th March 19:56
Crafty_ said:
I'm surprised Horner hasn't tried to blame Kvyat's gearbox failure on the engine yet.
He did, he said it was due to engine vibration, said it in an interview last weekendhttp://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118080
Edited by Doink on Tuesday 24th March 20:15
Sixpackpert said:
I thought they were slow in a straight line because RBR designed a chassis for high downforce so they could get out of DRS range through the twisty stuff before the straights.
But it had good torque which will negate VMax deficiency eg. at Monza it jumped off the chicanes quickly and as quick to reach terminal velocity - or something along those lines that I remember Mark Hughes write.Europa1 said:
I'm not quite so sure. I won't deny that Red Bull mastered the blown diffuser, but how much of that was down to engine mapping and exhaust/diffuser design as opposed to outright power?
Not much to do with power, but the mapping was Renault, and the mapping was 50% of what made the blown diffuser so effective. To say that the engine was the weak point of that time is completely incorrect. Power for all the V8s was very close, unlike now.If I remember rightly, the old Renault lump in the winning RBR cars was not just good with the blown diffuser, but more fuel efficient than the other engines, so the RB's could carry less at the start of a race and scamper away quickly, then go into fuel saving mode but still maintain their advantage or even pull away as they used less fuel all the way through.
A bit like Mercedes are doing now.
I am fully expecting a parting of ways between Red bull and Renault.with Renault making noises about buying another team and setting that up as their factory effort, where does that leave RBR? Given that everyone appears to agree that to win ynneed to be the works team for a manufacturer, then RBR may be stuffed anyway even if they do play nice.
A bit like Mercedes are doing now.
I am fully expecting a parting of ways between Red bull and Renault.with Renault making noises about buying another team and setting that up as their factory effort, where does that leave RBR? Given that everyone appears to agree that to win ynneed to be the works team for a manufacturer, then RBR may be stuffed anyway even if they do play nice.
Some Gump said:
RBR always ran high downforce, that is well reported. They also very aggressively packaged the kers system, putting aero over reliability.
The renault v8 was acknowledged as the weakest of the big 3 by a small margin, and the best of the 3 re. mapping by a large margin.
IMO RBR are just working an agenda to force change - possibly with them as promotor...
The renault as well had a decent edge on fuel use so Red Bulls could start lighter on fuel, saving brakes/tyres etc. This gap may have been closed down but 2010/11 i read they certainly had an edge over rivalsThe renault v8 was acknowledged as the weakest of the big 3 by a small margin, and the best of the 3 re. mapping by a large margin.
IMO RBR are just working an agenda to force change - possibly with them as promotor...
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