997.1 owners. How many are problem free ?
Discussion
2005 997.1 X51. So far so good at 82k miles.
Edited:
So torque curve is as per this post for X51 does this make it less prone? think probably not imho
![](http://thumbsnap.com/t/7WBqr7dq.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/7WBqr7dq" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/7WBqr7dq.jpg)
- A - Power (kW)
- B - Engine Speed (RPM)
- C - Torque (Nm/ftlb.)
- D - Standard C2s engine
- E - C2s engine with X51 Upgrade
Edited:
So torque curve is as per this post for X51 does this make it less prone? think probably not imho
Edited by sneakybear on Wednesday 25th March 08:59
- A - Power (kW)
- B - Engine Speed (RPM)
- C - Torque (Nm/ftlb.)
- D - Standard C2s engine
- E - C2s engine with X51 Upgrade
Edited by sneakybear on Wednesday 25th March 08:59
2005 997.1 C2S bought in 2011 with 35k miles, now close to 50k miles.
IMS/RMS, gearbox, front shocks and some minor gubins covered under warranty in the first year. Only servicing since.
Had a quick look on autotrader earlier and the cheapest 3.8 Carrera S Cabriolet is £22k with 114k miles on the clock. Quite a few cars with near on 100k miles now.
There is a 2007 car with 124k mileage and up for £25,500
I'd also say that good cars with around 60k miles and less haven't dropped below £26k for the cabriolet.
Most 964's and 3.2's would have had engine work by 100k miles, if not, they're probably leaking on the drive/garage.
IMS/RMS, gearbox, front shocks and some minor gubins covered under warranty in the first year. Only servicing since.
Had a quick look on autotrader earlier and the cheapest 3.8 Carrera S Cabriolet is £22k with 114k miles on the clock. Quite a few cars with near on 100k miles now.
There is a 2007 car with 124k mileage and up for £25,500
I'd also say that good cars with around 60k miles and less haven't dropped below £26k for the cabriolet.
Most 964's and 3.2's would have had engine work by 100k miles, if not, they're probably leaking on the drive/garage.
Edited by fastgerman on Wednesday 25th March 16:53
I used to own a 2004 C2S. I bought at 1 year old with approx 15000 miles and sold at 5 1/2 yrs old, having put over 45000 miles on the car. It was regularly driven very hard (including a PHN tour of France). The car was modded with extractor manifolds, 200-cell cats, free-flow silencers, BMC-F1 filter, custom remap by Wayne Schofield, Bilstein B16 Damptronic coilovers and a custom geo by CG. The engine mods gave a very noticeable increase in the top half of the rpm band (loading the engine's internals harder than normal) whilst the Bilstein's much higher spring rates increased the loadings on the car's 'shell.
The car was always warmed through thoroughly, with no more than part throttle and 3500rpm used until the oil came up to temp (90 degrees). Thereafter it was often driven as hard as conditions (and the local law) allowed, with no special attention given to driving off gently from lights after a hard run or other modifications of driving style designed to ward-off IMS and bore-scoring issues. I don't think such precautions were even known-about when I owned the car: nor was the 'low-temp thermostat' mod, so the car always had the standard 'stat installed.
In France on the PHN tour, the oil temp regularly exceeded 130 degrees C through the mountains but the engine was left running at each stop until all the temps came down. Engine oil was changed every 12 months as a minimum and more frequently if the car had seen particularly hard use. After the France tour, what came out of the sump is best described as 'burnt'. The old oil literally smelt like it had caught fire in the sump and it had only been there for the 2000-odd miles of the tour!
With the exception of 1 faulty coil pack, the car never had any engine issues at all. However, it did have other issues, the biggest of which was lunching a bearing in the gearbox (manual) that totalled the 'box! It also had plenty of electrical gremlins - mostly down to the known issue with the main charge cable from the alternator to the battery. It also lunched its alternator bearings during the France tour.
The car was returned to standard prior to trading it in and the engine was still running beautifully. It used almost no oil, had a very smooth tickover and no evidence of any reduction in power/torque compared to lower mileage examples owned by friends.
All the available evidence suggests that only a small percentage of engines fail prematurely and catastrophically and the fact I was able to run a modified, early engine (with the small IMS bearing) very hard indeed, with no ill effects, is certainly supportive of this assertion. (Not that it makes things any easier for the small percentage of owners that do suffer failures). It's my belief (based on my own car and several other owned by friends over the years) that the majority of the Gen-1 3.8s can probably take all the 'punishment' mine did, if they're maintained thoroughly and regularly. In fact, I think the harder they're driven and the more regularly the oil's changed, the less likely failures might be (but that's just my own, anecdotal opinion).
The car was always warmed through thoroughly, with no more than part throttle and 3500rpm used until the oil came up to temp (90 degrees). Thereafter it was often driven as hard as conditions (and the local law) allowed, with no special attention given to driving off gently from lights after a hard run or other modifications of driving style designed to ward-off IMS and bore-scoring issues. I don't think such precautions were even known-about when I owned the car: nor was the 'low-temp thermostat' mod, so the car always had the standard 'stat installed.
In France on the PHN tour, the oil temp regularly exceeded 130 degrees C through the mountains but the engine was left running at each stop until all the temps came down. Engine oil was changed every 12 months as a minimum and more frequently if the car had seen particularly hard use. After the France tour, what came out of the sump is best described as 'burnt'. The old oil literally smelt like it had caught fire in the sump and it had only been there for the 2000-odd miles of the tour!
With the exception of 1 faulty coil pack, the car never had any engine issues at all. However, it did have other issues, the biggest of which was lunching a bearing in the gearbox (manual) that totalled the 'box! It also had plenty of electrical gremlins - mostly down to the known issue with the main charge cable from the alternator to the battery. It also lunched its alternator bearings during the France tour.
The car was returned to standard prior to trading it in and the engine was still running beautifully. It used almost no oil, had a very smooth tickover and no evidence of any reduction in power/torque compared to lower mileage examples owned by friends.
All the available evidence suggests that only a small percentage of engines fail prematurely and catastrophically and the fact I was able to run a modified, early engine (with the small IMS bearing) very hard indeed, with no ill effects, is certainly supportive of this assertion. (Not that it makes things any easier for the small percentage of owners that do suffer failures). It's my belief (based on my own car and several other owned by friends over the years) that the majority of the Gen-1 3.8s can probably take all the 'punishment' mine did, if they're maintained thoroughly and regularly. In fact, I think the harder they're driven and the more regularly the oil's changed, the less likely failures might be (but that's just my own, anecdotal opinion).
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 25th March 18:13
O
It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
Ian_UK1 said:
It's my belief (based on my own car and several other owned by friends over the years) that the majority of the Gen-1 3.8s can probably take all the 'punishment' mine did, if they're maintained thoroughly and regularly. In fact, I think the harder they're driven and the more regularly the oil's changed, the less likely failures might be (but that's just my own, anecdotal opinion).
^This. I treat my 997 c2s the same way. Warm up properly (oil to 90deg) then give her a proper rinsing and change the oil every year regardless. She's now approaching 94k and is still strong as an Ox. Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 25th March 18:13
It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
STiG911 said:
^This. I treat my 997 c2s the same way. Warm up properly (oil to 90deg) then give her a proper rinsing and change the oil every year regardless. She's now approaching 94k and is still strong as an Ox.
It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
My wife's curerent 4S Is going great guns at 40k and she pushes hard, but her previous one had a new engine at 7k. No one deserves all they get when it comes to IMS/scoring. And the idiots are the people who do NOT "baby them around town". Why would you thrash a Porsche in a city / town? It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
O
It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
Ian_UK1 said:
It's my belief (based on my own car and several other owned by friends over the years) that the majority of the Gen-1 3.8s can probably take all the 'punishment' mine did, if they're maintained thoroughly and regularly. In fact, I think the harder they're driven and the more regularly the oil's changed, the less likely failures might be (but that's just my own, anecdotal opinion).
^This. I treat my 997 c2s the same way. Warm up properly (oil to 90deg) then give her a proper rinsing and change the oil every year regardless. She's now approaching 94k and is still strong as an Ox. Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 25th March 18:13
It's a sports car and peak torque and power are both North of 4k rpm, so all these idiots who baby them round town then moan when they go pop deserve all they get.
'05 C2S, 43K currently, done 5K in the 12 months I've owned it. Used most days, mainly short journeys where the oil doesn't get fully up to temperature unfortunately, but interspersed with long runs. Switched to Millers Nanotech last year and will likely install LTT this year. Expenditure has been an oil service, a pair of rear tyres (after puncture) and it now needs a windscreen wiper. Compared to my 964, well.........
That these (regular) posts are here at all signifies both frustration and disappointment for me as a Porsche enthusiast.
The company built a reputation on diligent and top quality engineering principles and, as a consequence, made some superb sports cars; the very best in the world.
However, at the turn of every key, if the owner is listening for unwanted noises, and at the finish of every journey the priority is to check exhaust pipe colours, then what's the point.
That Porsche re-engineered the 997.2 engine at all is an admission that the earlier unit had inherent issues, and the constant need for reassurance in threads like this one will continue to steer potential 996/997.1 owners towards less worrisome pleasures.
The company built a reputation on diligent and top quality engineering principles and, as a consequence, made some superb sports cars; the very best in the world.
However, at the turn of every key, if the owner is listening for unwanted noises, and at the finish of every journey the priority is to check exhaust pipe colours, then what's the point.
That Porsche re-engineered the 997.2 engine at all is an admission that the earlier unit had inherent issues, and the constant need for reassurance in threads like this one will continue to steer potential 996/997.1 owners towards less worrisome pleasures.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff