Which car maker currently offers the "worst" range of cars?
Discussion
Crafty_ said:
ferrariF50lover said:
Vauxhall... By a country mile.
Vauxhall only do utterly, utterly hopeless versions of stuff other people do so much better. Excepting their top of the range efforts, their cars, by any and every objective standard, are dreadfully poor.
What a load of rubbish.Vauxhall only do utterly, utterly hopeless versions of stuff other people do so much better. Excepting their top of the range efforts, their cars, by any and every objective standard, are dreadfully poor.
All cars have faults/issues and Vauxhall are no different. Their products are not significantly worse (or better) than any other manufacturer.
I suppose it depends on what criteria you're making the choice -
Honda/Toyota are somewhat uninspiring to me, but appear to be a quality product ?
Audi/VAG ? all I see is reducing quality, an image that appears to be going downhill and they all seem a bit samey ? it feels like Audis have looked the same for years. Aren't some of the platforms quite old now ? did I read somewhere the A5 platform is some years old? They don't really make me want to own one.
Subaru/Renault don't seems to know if they really want to sell vehicles here or not and the range available is a bit half arsed ?
On the flip side The Jag XE and the recently unveiled new XF have my interest for several years time, seems the product is what Audi were maybe 15 years ago? solid engineering, a bit of style to them whilst not being too outlandish ?
Edited by Crafty_ on Friday 27th March 19:24
Dblue said:
VAG are on a complete roll now, the majority of their group cars are all on the spanking new state of the art MQB platform. And quality across the range is as good as its ever been. Not sure where you get those opinions
Quality is certainly not as good as it was. Oil Consumption in the TFSI engines ? problem has been going on for years and they're still fixing it. New TT electrical problems ? swirl flap manifolds failing, frequent waterlogged ECUs, stretchy cam chains in 1.2/1.4 engines, cam chain tensioner problems on 2 litre petrols, do you want me to go on ? the list is very, very long. It most certainly wasn't this way say 15 years ago.Hate to say it, but... Fiat.
The Panda is excellent, the 500 is stylish but outdated, and the Punto is essentially a ten year old car now, well overdue for replacement. I had a new Bravo in 2008 and loved it, but in the 7 years since then nothing has changed bar reducing the choice of engines and trim levels down to sod-all. The 500 MPV thing is execrable, and I can't even be arsed to see if they have persevered with their version of the Suzuki SX4.
Wish they would get their act together and produce some new, desirable cars, rather than rely on heavily discounted old models while the competition and the market move on.
The Panda is excellent, the 500 is stylish but outdated, and the Punto is essentially a ten year old car now, well overdue for replacement. I had a new Bravo in 2008 and loved it, but in the 7 years since then nothing has changed bar reducing the choice of engines and trim levels down to sod-all. The 500 MPV thing is execrable, and I can't even be arsed to see if they have persevered with their version of the Suzuki SX4.
Wish they would get their act together and produce some new, desirable cars, rather than rely on heavily discounted old models while the competition and the market move on.
Dblue said:
VAG are on a complete roll now, the majority of their group cars are all on the spanking new state of the art MQB platform. And quality across the range is as good as its ever been. Not sure where you get those opinions
What's state of the art about the new platform? (Not being facetious!)I did done work for Toyota years ago and they have a fancy head office near Epsom IIRC which has a showcase car showroom kind of deal as you walk around. Lots of cars hung from the ceiling, in meeting rooms and all over the place. Cool offices, but the cars.... So, so, so dull. But even so bad as to be characterful, which is so much worse. Rubbish.
Jonny_ said:
Hate to say it, but... Fiat.
The Panda is excellent, the 500 is stylish but outdated, and the Punto is essentially a ten year old car now, well overdue for replacement. I had a new Bravo in 2008 and loved it, but in the 7 years since then nothing has changed bar reducing the choice of engines and trim levels down to sod-all. The 500 MPV thing is execrable, and I can't even be arsed to see if they have persevered with their version of the Suzuki SX4.
Wish they would get their act together and produce some new, desirable cars, rather than rely on heavily discounted old models while the competition and the market move on.
Sad for me to agree, as I have been a long supporter of their cars, (currently have 3 in our family fleet) nothing recently has emulated many of their design classics, or for that matter that wonderful 5 pot engine which first appeared in the Coupe, seems they and for that matter their Alfa cousins have lost their way, very sad reallyThe Panda is excellent, the 500 is stylish but outdated, and the Punto is essentially a ten year old car now, well overdue for replacement. I had a new Bravo in 2008 and loved it, but in the 7 years since then nothing has changed bar reducing the choice of engines and trim levels down to sod-all. The 500 MPV thing is execrable, and I can't even be arsed to see if they have persevered with their version of the Suzuki SX4.
Wish they would get their act together and produce some new, desirable cars, rather than rely on heavily discounted old models while the competition and the market move on.
Edited by briang9 on Friday 27th March 23:53
Mitsubishi seem to be getting quite a kicking on here! I briefly considered a current shape non-Evo Lancer as a runabout recently, as they're something a bit different and look quite sporty and cool (never driven one though). Some of the lowlier models look quite similar to an Evo too (not sure if this is a good or a bad thing). The dealership I was dealing with couldn't be bothered to return my calls though, so I bought a Honda Civic instead. Weird!
Are they really that bad? 20 years ago, they were probably pretty decent cars compared to most of the dross that Ford and Vauxhall were churning out in the mid-90s but whereas Ford (and to a lesser extent Vauxhall) have come on in leaps and bounds in the last 20 years, Mitsubishi haven't really.
Really surprised that Subaru hasn't been mentioned more, as they have gone from hero to zero in my opinion.
Are they really that bad? 20 years ago, they were probably pretty decent cars compared to most of the dross that Ford and Vauxhall were churning out in the mid-90s but whereas Ford (and to a lesser extent Vauxhall) have come on in leaps and bounds in the last 20 years, Mitsubishi haven't really.
Really surprised that Subaru hasn't been mentioned more, as they have gone from hero to zero in my opinion.
bazza white said:
For something different ill go for Aston martin.
Evolution just seems to slow, just a few tweaks and no real steps forward. Even the different models look the same just either stretched or squashed a bit.
If this is not allowed I'll refer back to Peugeot.
I get your point but really? Yes, the styling hasn't moved on much in the last 10 years but it's not a bad look (better than Porsche trying to make everything look like a 911) and Bond's new car (DB10) looks different but worse IMHO. the Lagonda looks pretty tasty too!Evolution just seems to slow, just a few tweaks and no real steps forward. Even the different models look the same just either stretched or squashed a bit.
If this is not allowed I'll refer back to Peugeot.
would you genuinely rather have a new Mitsubishi over a new Aston Martin?
ferrariF50lover said:
Vauxhall... By a country mile.
Mitsubishi do the ASX, which, in 2.0TDi form, is a genuinely decent motor.
Vauxhall only do utterly, utterly hopeless versions of stuff other people do so much better. Excepting their top of the range efforts, their cars, by any and every objective standard, are dreadfully poor.
Jeremy... is that you?Mitsubishi do the ASX, which, in 2.0TDi form, is a genuinely decent motor.
Vauxhall only do utterly, utterly hopeless versions of stuff other people do so much better. Excepting their top of the range efforts, their cars, by any and every objective standard, are dreadfully poor.
valiant said:
Fiat.
Take away the 500 and you have an ageing, outdated line up. Grand Punto, Bravo have all been left behind by their competitors and are sorely in need of replacing.
Agree on that one - when we bought the wifeys 500 the showroom was dire. Even the big 500 variants are hideous.Take away the 500 and you have an ageing, outdated line up. Grand Punto, Bravo have all been left behind by their competitors and are sorely in need of replacing.
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