VLN crash at Nurburgring, at least one spectator killed :(
Discussion
spadriver said:
The driver was a passenger (a lttle bit of bravado perhaps? Trying to outdo other drivers on the length of the jump? )Something we'll never know.
Flugplatz is not the place you grab significant air at the 'Ring, as most people know. Pflanzgarten is the main jumping point. Regardless of that, a VLN race isn't some sort of showboating exercise so it's very silly of you to think that he was showing off in some way.Ahonen said:
spadriver said:
The driver was a passenger (a lttle bit of bravado perhaps? Trying to outdo other drivers on the length of the jump? )Something we'll never know.
Flugplatz is not the place you grab significant air at the 'Ring, as most people know. Pflanzgarten is the main jumping point. Regardless of that, a VLN race isn't some sort of showboating exercise so it's very silly of you to think that he was showing off in some way.Wonder where the name originated from then.
DanielSan said:
spadriver said:
Really?
Wonder where the name originated from then.
Flugplatz is german for airfield, that section is called that because there's an airfield not far from it... Wonder where the name originated from then.
Very interesting documentary on tv last night, covering just about everything about the ring.Right from its conception, or the addition of the ring as its known now rather than just the "hill test" up through wehrseifen.Going to see one of the historians in a couple of days.
spadriver said:
Or literally Flight Place.;)
Very interesting documentary on tv last night, covering just about everything about the ring.Right from its conception, or the addition of the ring as its known now rather than just the "hill test" up through wehrseifen.Going to see one of the historians in a couple of days.
was that on in the UK, if so, which channel?Very interesting documentary on tv last night, covering just about everything about the ring.Right from its conception, or the addition of the ring as its known now rather than just the "hill test" up through wehrseifen.Going to see one of the historians in a couple of days.
Ahonen said:
Flugplatz is not the place you grab significant air at the 'Ring, as most people know. Pflanzgarten is the main jumping point. Regardless of that, a VLN race isn't some sort of showboating exercise so it's very silly of you to think that he was showing off in some way.
Most race cars don't jump at Flugplatz, while plenty of quickish road cars do.Accidents happen...not just at old tracks like the Nordschliefe. Cars can go over fences anywhere, as seen this video from a very new track (korea) a few weeks back...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMjupRGAEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMjupRGAEI
acf8181 said:
Accidents happen...not just at old tracks like the Nordschliefe. Cars can go over fences anywhere, as seen this video from a very new track (korea) a few weeks back...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMjupRGAEI
A car going airborne as part of an accident is not the same thing as an undamaged car spontaneously flipping on a crest though. As far as I am aware this has only happened 5 times now - all manufacturer works teams and all very fast flat bottomed endurance racing cars (the Nismo is actually the slowest car to have done it so far). Best known is the Mercedes CLR at Le Mans : that flipped in practice (Webber) so they changed the setup to try and prevent it happening again. However, during the race Peter Dumbreck had a huge multiple flip and ended up beside the track and Mercedes withdrew the rest of the team. Two of the others were Road Atlanta (Petit LeMans) - Porsche GT1-98 and BMW LMR a couple of years apart. In all of those they were considered an aero/setup problem for the manufacturer to fix - I recall no talk of changing the cars, rules or butchering the circuits with extra chicanes? But there were no serious injuries either (only drivers were affected and not critically, though apparently to this day Dumbreck doesn't remember the crash, getting out of the car, taking off his helmet, laying down and passing out - he had a lot of medical attention afterwards but was essentially okay). Nobody ever tried to attribute any of those to the drivers either - all top line factory guys.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMjupRGAEI
After those there was nothing else that I know of until the GT-R GT3. A couple of years ago a lot of the SP9 cars started demonstrating nose lift at Flugplatz and most of the teams have since worked to prevent it (apparently Mercedes did a range of aero updates due to concern with the SLS - possibly mindful of the CLR incidents). The best known case though was ironically the Nissan, which did such a pronounced "wheelie" that the commentators went a bit mad and Polyphony put a virtual version of it into the trailer for one of the Gran Turismo games.
The thing to bear in mind though is that if nobody had been hurt then (as with the other incidents) it is (IMHO) highly unlikely that they would even have red flagged the race and the most likely outcome would have been a code 60 area (due to the barrier damage) until the end of the race and the teams taking an even more serious look at ensuring that it didn't happen again.
My ultimate hope though is that irrespective of history we never see an undamaged car doing an uncontrolled flip (or even a high AoA aerodynamic nose lift) ever again. The prospect of a spectator being killed in this incident is something that I personally found rather upsetting - motorsport is and to a managed extent should (again IMHO) be a sport with an element of danger. But simply watching it really shouldn't.
Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 24th April 19:38
Has no one bothered googling something like "Historic pictures of Nordschleife Flugplatz?
Fantastic photos of quite a few airborn cars including F1 from the sixties with one car (Jack Brabham driving I think) with around two feet of air under it.
Worth looking at;)
Further photos to be found on Pinterest.Mclaren, Mercedes, Porsche.Road going Corvettes and more historic F1s, Goldleaf Lotus' s and more.Competition between Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten .
Fantastic photos of quite a few airborn cars including F1 from the sixties with one car (Jack Brabham driving I think) with around two feet of air under it.
Worth looking at;)
Further photos to be found on Pinterest.Mclaren, Mercedes, Porsche.Road going Corvettes and more historic F1s, Goldleaf Lotus' s and more.Competition between Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten .
Edited by spadriver on Sunday 26th April 07:39
Has no one bothered googling something like "Historic pictures of Nordschleife Flugplatz?
Fantastic photos of quite a few airborn cars including F1 from the sixties with one car (Jack Brabham driving I think) with around two feet of air under it.
Worth looking at;)
Further photos to be found on Pinterest.Mclaren, Mercedes, Porsche.Road going Corvettes and more historic F1s, Goldleaf Lotus' s and more.Competition between Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten .
Fantastic photos of quite a few airborn cars including F1 from the sixties with one car (Jack Brabham driving I think) with around two feet of air under it.
Worth looking at;)
Further photos to be found on Pinterest.Mclaren, Mercedes, Porsche.Road going Corvettes and more historic F1s, Goldleaf Lotus' s and more.Competition between Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten .
Edited by spadriver on Sunday 26th April 07:59
DiscoColin said:
Best known is the Mercedes CLR at Le Mans : that flipped in practice (Webber) so they changed the setup to try and prevent it happening again. However, during the race Peter Dumbreck had a huge multiple flip and ended up beside the track and Mercedes withdrew the rest of the team. ...I recall no talk of ...butchering the circuits with extra chicanes? .
Correct as the chicanes had already been added to slow the cars down but there was a bit of further 'butchery' after that incident in that the humps on the Mulsanne were dug out to make it flatEdited by DiscoColin on Friday 24th April 19:38
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