Static Sag v Rider Sag
Discussion
What's a good static sag value for forks and shock on a sportsbike?
I'm reading into how preload affects ride height at present and ideally you should increase both ends the same amount to keep the bike height / geometry the same ...
But that geometry will change once you apply weight to the forks / shock (I.e. Sit on it ... ) ... So do I need the ride height spec from Honda?
Am I thinking about this too much
lol
I'm reading into how preload affects ride height at present and ideally you should increase both ends the same amount to keep the bike height / geometry the same ...
But that geometry will change once you apply weight to the forks / shock (I.e. Sit on it ... ) ... So do I need the ride height spec from Honda?
Am I thinking about this too much
lol Mr OCD said:
What's a good static sag value for forks and shock on a sportsbike?
Around 1/3rdof total stroke is a good target. So 40mm road bikeMr OCD said:
I'm reading into how preload affects ride height at present and ideally you should increase both ends the same amount to keep the bike height / geometry the same ...
Ideally yesMr OCD said:
But that geometry will change once you apply weight to the forks / shock (I.e. Sit on it ... ) ... So do I need the ride height spec from Honda?
Not necessary. You'll feel any rake front to rear so easy to adjust accordingly. If you can get to a plumb level ground, use an inclinometer to check front rake, if that's good, it's all goodMr OCD said:
Am I thinking about this too much lol
Just a bit lol Mr OCD said:
bass gt3 said:
Just a bit
I did say static sag ...
Seriously, ignore Static sag. The bike can't ride itself so it's a somewhat meaningless number. The goal is to achieve the required sag numbers with a couple of turns of preload in the front and the normal 12mm in the rear. The rear is measured as spring length compared to uncompressed (free) spring length with it not mounted.
A better way to measure is to workout the stiction in the front & rear to see what condition the suspension is in.
bass gt3 said:
Ahhh yes, my bad.
Seriously, ignore Static sag. The bike can't ride itself so it's a somewhat meaningless number. The goal is to achieve the required sag numbers with a couple of turns of preload in the front and the normal 12mm in the rear. The rear is measured as spring length compared to uncompressed (free) spring length with it not mounted.
A better way to measure is to workout the stiction in the front & rear to see what condition the suspension is in.
I was wondering as I know you have to have some static sag as none is a very bad idea ... Seriously, ignore Static sag. The bike can't ride itself so it's a somewhat meaningless number. The goal is to achieve the required sag numbers with a couple of turns of preload in the front and the normal 12mm in the rear. The rear is measured as spring length compared to uncompressed (free) spring length with it not mounted.
A better way to measure is to workout the stiction in the front & rear to see what condition the suspension is in.
Stiction I can do ... Via Racetech methods... By taking an average
Mr OCD said:
bass gt3 said:
Ahhh yes, my bad.
Seriously, ignore Static sag. The bike can't ride itself so it's a somewhat meaningless number. The goal is to achieve the required sag numbers with a couple of turns of preload in the front and the normal 12mm in the rear. The rear is measured as spring length compared to uncompressed (free) spring length with it not mounted.
A better way to measure is to workout the stiction in the front & rear to see what condition the suspension is in.
I was wondering as I know you have to have some static sag as none is a very bad idea ... Seriously, ignore Static sag. The bike can't ride itself so it's a somewhat meaningless number. The goal is to achieve the required sag numbers with a couple of turns of preload in the front and the normal 12mm in the rear. The rear is measured as spring length compared to uncompressed (free) spring length with it not mounted.
A better way to measure is to workout the stiction in the front & rear to see what condition the suspension is in.
Stiction I can do ... Via Racetech methods... By taking an average
Doing stiction by the average method is handy but I suspect you'll be fine considering the bike is newish.
bass gt3 said:
Ohlins give some guidelines for static sag but if you achieve those numbers and fail on dynamic sag it's moot. Even K Tech advise to concentrate on dynamic sag only.
Doing stiction by the average method is handy but I suspect you'll be fine considering the bike is newish.
Cheers my man ... Off to read my new book... Doing stiction by the average method is handy but I suspect you'll be fine considering the bike is newish.
... More questions likely to be incoming!
You really should do a sticky post on suspension fella
t on 8.5!
... 95kg of beefcake! bass gt3 said:
when I get home I'll write you a full dissertation as to why you only need to be concerned about rider sag. static is a useful number but until your bike can ride itself rider sag is more relevant.
And before we start you need to get comfortable with the following. ...
Preload DOES NOT affect spring rates. it ONLY affects ride height...
Think it over and we'll chat later.
This... The end And before we start you need to get comfortable with the following. ...
Preload DOES NOT affect spring rates. it ONLY affects ride height...
Think it over and we'll chat later.
Measured standard ride heights with fatso here on the bike so can now work on keeping the bike balanced ...
38mm front sag = 9 turns from fully out and an increase in ride height of 6mm at the front ...
30mm rear sag = setting 6 out of 10 and an increase in ride height of 2mm at the rear ...
Forks dropped 4mm in yokes....
... That's how I roll ...
38mm front sag = 9 turns from fully out and an increase in ride height of 6mm at the front ...
30mm rear sag = setting 6 out of 10 and an increase in ride height of 2mm at the rear ...
Forks dropped 4mm in yokes....
... That's how I roll ...
Mr OCD said:
Rear might be a little stiff but we'll see how it rides now ...
But IMHO I think the rear sag is more important than the front and more critical?
Balance is the key. As long as the bike depresses equally when pressed then you're ok. But going by the numbers above I'd say you're getting there.But IMHO I think the rear sag is more important than the front and more critical?
Ohlins reckon 25 to 40mm rear and 35 to 50mm front as a dynamic number. I think that's a tad on the soft end at the extreme end but gives you a good idea
bass gt3 said:
Balance is the key. As long as the bike depresses equally when pressed then you're ok. But going by the numbers above I'd say you're getting there.
Ohlins reckon 25 to 40mm rear and 35 to 50mm front as a dynamic number. I think that's a tad on the soft end at the extreme end but gives you a good idea
I've found that balance really comes from tweaking the comp screws so each end compresses evenly ... rather than the sag.Ohlins reckon 25 to 40mm rear and 35 to 50mm front as a dynamic number. I think that's a tad on the soft end at the extreme end but gives you a good idea
Rode the bike this morning and it feels great! Well impressed!
It's probably a little soft for track work but for the road its damn good... I will probably add a tiny bit of compression to both ends over the weekend but I want to go out on the bike for a few hours and experiment whilst the suspension is warm on the bike.
I'm no longer skipping over bad roads and it feels utterly planted in corners. Very confident inspiring.
Did more reading and apparently running a bit more sag in the front can be beneficial as it can prevent the wheel lifting under acceleration which is why most suspension experts recommend a bit more sag in the front than the rear. Makes sense... it also means I can get away with not winding up the preload so much on the front.
I might try going down a notch on the rear at some point as part of the learning process.
Understanding it is one thing... putting it into practice and feeling the difference is another. Hence by only changing one thing at a time you can experience the difference properly. Rather cool
Mr OCD said:
I've found that balance really comes from tweaking the comp screws so each end compresses evenly ... rather than the sag.
Rode the bike this morning and it feels great! Well impressed!
It's probably a little soft for track work but for the road its damn good... I will probably add a tiny bit of compression to both ends over the weekend but I want to go out on the bike for a few hours and experiment whilst the suspension is warm on the bike.
I'm no longer skipping over bad roads and it feels utterly planted in corners. Very confident inspiring.
Did more reading and apparently running a bit more sag in the front can be beneficial as it can prevent the wheel lifting under acceleration which is why most suspension experts recommend a bit more sag in the front than the rear. Makes sense... it also means I can get away with not winding up the preload so much on the front.
I might try going down a notch on the rear at some point as part of the learning process.
Understanding it is one thing... putting it into practice and feeling the difference is another. Hence by only changing one thing at a time you can experience the difference properly. Rather cool
Rode the bike this morning and it feels great! Well impressed!
It's probably a little soft for track work but for the road its damn good... I will probably add a tiny bit of compression to both ends over the weekend but I want to go out on the bike for a few hours and experiment whilst the suspension is warm on the bike.
I'm no longer skipping over bad roads and it feels utterly planted in corners. Very confident inspiring.
Did more reading and apparently running a bit more sag in the front can be beneficial as it can prevent the wheel lifting under acceleration which is why most suspension experts recommend a bit more sag in the front than the rear. Makes sense... it also means I can get away with not winding up the preload so much on the front.
I might try going down a notch on the rear at some point as part of the learning process.
Understanding it is one thing... putting it into practice and feeling the difference is another. Hence by only changing one thing at a time you can experience the difference properly. Rather cool
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