"Educating" the other half about business practices

[andy-xr]

beanbag said:

I am the primary earner...........From my point of view, she has a very cushy life and even if she doesn't earn much, her parents will always be there to support her and I never want to be reliant on them for myself or my future family. I'm too proud for that.

And there's the problem. You think you need to bring money to the table to show your value in the relationship. The problem is, even if she goes off on 2 years maternity, money isnt going to be a problem.

I think you need to figure out what your value is, because if you take money out of the equation, what've you got to offer her? Is 'just me' a scary proposition?

beanbag said:

She's more than once said she doesn't need all the nice things we have, but I don't believe that song will ring true once we remove her convertible, 3 bedroom home in the middle of an exclusive golf resort, meals out 1-2 times a week, buying of good food, nice clothes and regular holidays all stop.....

And there's your justification of why you have to, at all costs, must work every hour God sends, incase anything bad happens, you're going to fix the problems and it's all amazing. You're trying to control a situation that isnt really under your control at all. Micromanaging her is going to push her away, and you'll just keep working harder and harder to show her you're right.

Newsflash - she probably wants you for you. You dont have to be Batman every single day. Try her out with the idea and see what actually happens. She probably doesnt care if you dont earn €100k a minute. The great thing about having money is that you dont have to spend it, vs not having it and desperately needing it. Here's a chance to sample a possible lifestyle change without any real negatives

Edited by andy-xr on Wednesday 1st April 09:46

[Bluebarge]

beanbag said:

She's more than once said she doesn't need all the nice things we have, but I don't believe that song will ring true once we remove her convertible, 3 bedroom home in the middle of an exclusive golf resort, meals out 1-2 times a week, buying of good food, nice clothes and regular holidays all stop.....

OK. Work out a budget for what you would earn if you had a less well-paid job somewhere local (be realistic). Look at what that would buy you locally on Rightmove, if you sold your current place for whatever Zoopla says it is worth (both figures will be inaccurate but they are a starting point). Use a mortgage calculator to see what an affordable mortgage will leave you (don't forget interest rates will only go up). Then work out what the baby will cost you (lots of stuff on t'web for this but ignore the "whole life" figures - just look at food and clothes etc for the growing up period when your wife won't work).Then see if that leaves you anything for holidays and cars and other stuff, then talk to your wife and see if she really would be happy with that.

Personally I would discount any cash that may come from her parents or their business - there are an awful lot of family SMEs around that have little value once the driving force reaches retirement age, particularly those that have deliberately stayed small and/or local, so unless it is a business with an amazing brand or valuable IP, then it may well not be worth much when they retire, and dementia and other health issues mean that old people's nest-eggs are increasingly being used to fund their nursing care in old age, rather than being handed down the generations. So I would not assume she will get a chunky inheritance somewhere down the line (I note that you don't want their money but she probably will assume that they will be around to look after her).

TBH, if she's not happy now, she will be even less happy when left on her own with a baby, so you need to work out whether a compromise is necessary and whether she would be happy with that compromise. Her current attitude is unrealistic, but plenty of marriages fall apart because one party is chasing the dollar all the time when actually it is their presence that is wanted, not their cash.

[beanbag]

Bluebarge said:

beanbag said:

She's more than once said she doesn't need all the nice things we have, but I don't believe that song will ring true once we remove her convertible, 3 bedroom home in the middle of an exclusive golf resort, meals out 1-2 times a week, buying of good food, nice clothes and regular holidays all stop.....

OK. Work out a budget for what you would earn if you had a less well-paid job somewhere local (be realistic). Look at what that would buy you locally on Rightmove, if you sold your current place for whatever Zoopla says it is worth (both figures will be inaccurate but they are a starting point). Use a mortgage calculator to see what an affordable mortgage will leave you (don't forget interest rates will only go up). Then work out what the baby will cost you (lots of stuff on t'web for this but ignore the "whole life" figures - just look at food and clothes etc for the growing up period when your wife won't work).Then see if that leaves you anything for holidays and cars and other stuff, then talk to your wife and see if she really would be happy with that.

Personally I would discount any cash that may come from her parents or their business - there are an awful lot of family SMEs around that have little value once the driving force reaches retirement age, particularly those that have deliberately stayed small and/or local, so unless it is a business with an amazing brand or valuable IP, then it may well not be worth much when they retire, and dementia and other health issues mean that old people's nest-eggs are increasingly being used to fund their nursing care in old age, rather than being handed down the generations. So I would not assume she will get a chunky inheritance somewhere down the line (I note that you don't want their money but she probably will assume that they will be around to look after her).

TBH, if she's not happy now, she will be even less happy when left on her own with a baby, so you need to work out whether a compromise is necessary and whether she would be happy with that compromise. Her current attitude is unrealistic, but plenty of marriages fall apart because one party is chasing the dollar all the time when actually it is their presence that is wanted, not their cash.

I'm living in the South of Spain so there's not much Zoopla or Rightmove will help me with!

Perhaps it's something else I should have mentioned before but it's a much easier scenario if we were to go and live back in the UK. (Something neither her or I want to do. She was brought up down here and I've found my home in Spain).

In the UK, there are a lot more jobs around for starters and opportunities for us both but in Spain, we're very limited with job prospects, and my career path is tied to Gibraltar. Unless I were to get into the leisure industry (which I assure you I don't), there isn't much more out here for me work wise.

Going back to moving, I think this is the first step we need to take. Moving closer to my place of work will ease the burden for her substantially. I'd be home earlier, we could socialise more as a result and spend time together which is what she wants. Whatever we do, she understandably doesn't want to live too far from her parents and her work, but the latter will be irrelevant in a couple of years as she won't be working once we have kids. This is something she wants to do and I'm very happy with that. But again, more reason to have a good job to support us as a family. Life isn't as cheap around here as most people think!

Also working for less money doesn't mean less hours. At least not that I've seen so while I agree I need to find ways of spending more time with my partner, leaving my current job or even proposing the idea is not a solution. I'll just end up working somewhere I dislike, earning less money, working the same hours and living a lifestyle I don't enjoy and end up feeling resentful. This is something that will kill our relationship in a second. The only perk will be perhaps that extra hour a day I get in the evening....I can't see anything positive about that.

We're both away this weekend on separate holidays. She is off to a very nice health spa in the UK, while I'm heading out to see the boys back in London. (Again more things we couldn't afford without my job), and then we're off again on holiday with our dogs at a gorgeous retreat the following weekend. (More nice things). I'm thinking of bringing up the topic then and just listening to her without giving my opinion. Ultimately, I'm missing something from all this and I need to hear it from her.

[supertouring]

If you need a new girlfiend give me a shout.

I like the sound of an easy job in spain, with convertible, good food and nice house etc.

And I would let you work all the hours you wanted.

(but I will not wear a dress, sorry)

[beanbag]

supertouring said:

If you need a new girlfiend give me a shout.

I like the sound of an easy job in spain, with convertible, good food and nice house etc.

And I would let you work all the hours you wanted.

(but I will not wear a dress, sorry)

Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep that in mind (just in case)

[NRS]

I can wear a dress if required, being Scottish,

beanbag said:

Life isn't as cheap around here as most people think!

Also working for less money doesn't mean less hours. At least not that I've seen so while I agree I need to find ways of spending more time with my partner, leaving my current job or even proposing the idea is not a solution. I'll just end up working somewhere I dislike, earning less money, working the same hours and living a lifestyle I don't enjoy and end up feeling resentful. This is something that will kill our relationship in a second. The only perk will be perhaps that extra hour a day I get in the evening....I can't see anything positive about that.

We're both away this weekend on separate holidays. She is off to a very nice health spa in the UK, while I'm heading out to see the boys back in London. (Again more things we couldn't afford without my job), and then we're off again on holiday with our dogs at a gorgeous retreat the following weekend. (More nice things). I'm thinking of bringing up the topic then and just listening to her without giving my opinion. Ultimately, I'm missing something from all this and I need to hear it from her.

In regards to life not being too cheap - well that depends on what lifestyle you want. It certainly sounds as if you could make quite a few cuts and still be comfortable (even if you don't believe she will be happy in practice). And as mentioned a few times before that if she really is meaning she wants more of your time and less of the nice things then you're not listening to her and what she wants at all, which is going to kill your relationship too. I suspect she will see that extra hour very differently than you (although it's not good if you become resentful either).

What hours are you actually working, and can you reduce them a little? That tends to be what people in my company do, once they've shown they're a good employee they're allowed to be more flexible in working 90% or whatever for family time.

[ReaderScars]

OP, no prospect of taking someone on to reduce your workload somehow, or maybe train someone to share the profits and reduce your hours?

[Condi]

beanbag said:

Moving closer to my place of work will ease the burden for her substantially.

(Again more things we couldn't afford without my job).

1) So moving closer to your place of work would make things easier for her?

2) She doesnt need the money, so you say? A weekend back in the UK from Spain is not exactly 5* hotels in New York, and probably not beyond the reach of most people on reasonable salaries.



Sounds to me like you're busting your nuts earning money while leaving her at home. Shes getting fed up and bored, as well as having an easy job herself so she has plenty of time to think about having you around. By the sounds of things your work/life balance is all wrong, and you need to either cut down your hours or accept you're choosing a job over her. I would suggest your hours are unreasonable, especially if it involves a lot of travelling as well, but suspect that is as much you wanting to do it, than your boss needing you to do it. Cant you work from home as has been suggested?

In short - the job or her? Your choice.

[HD Adam]

beanbag said:

Her view on things is sometimes very naive and unrealistic and while she's a very smart girl and very competent in what she does for her work and managing everything, she simply lacks sometimes what I think is a real world view and the reality of a job with high wages to pay for the lifestyle we currently live.

In my experience, she will never understand this and you will never be able to explain it.

Some years ago, when I was Operations Manager for an oilfield service company, I could pretty much guarantee that within a day of sending somebody offshore, their other half would be on the phone to me demanding to know when they would be back.

The dog is ill, the dishwasher is broken, my car is making a funny noise etc.
Whatever it was, they wanted them back and I couldn't tell when that would be.
I could estimate because that's how jobs on the rig go but that was all.

When giving the same people notice that they would be going away, whether it was a day or 2 weeks, the usual response was "ooh, the missus won't be happy"

My only response was to say that if you really love her and she really loves you and she can't handle you being away, then you need to quit and get a job where you will be there for her when she needs you.
Maybe you won't be earning the same money or have the same lifestyle, but if that's what you BOTH really want, then it won't matter.

It's like the on/off relationship with Lewis Hamilton and Nicole Shirtswinger.
Career in the way, I'm here, she's there, race season, on tour or whatever.
If they both really loved each other, one, the other or both would quit and they'd be happy living in a caravan, eating economy beans on toast for tea.

FYI, nobody ever did quit. I suspect half the time they were glad to be away from the needy, whiny bird

[AyBee]

HD Adam said:

In my experience, she will never understand this and you will never be able to explain it.

Some years ago, when I was Operations Manager for an oilfield service company, I could pretty much guarantee that within a day of sending somebody offshore, their other half would be on the phone to me demanding to know when they would be back.

The dog is ill, the dishwasher is broken, my car is making a funny noise etc.
Whatever it was, they wanted them back and I couldn't tell when that would be.
I could estimate because that's how jobs on the rig go but that was all.

When giving the same people notice that they would be going away, whether it was a day or 2 weeks, the usual response was "ooh, the missus won't be happy"

My only response was to say that if you really love her and she really loves you and she can't handle you being away, then you need to quit and get a job where you will be there for her when she needs you.
Maybe you won't be earning the same money or have the same lifestyle, but if that's what you BOTH really want, then it won't matter.

It's like the on/off relationship with Lewis Hamilton and Nicole Shirtswinger.
Career in the way, I'm here, she's there, race season, on tour or whatever.
If they both really loved each other, one, the other or both would quit and they'd be happy living in a caravan, eating economy beans on toast for tea.

FYI, nobody ever did quit. I suspect half the time they were glad to be away from the needy, whiny bird

That's crap. Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you should be willing to sacrifice the rest of your life for them.

[HD Adam]

Depends what you love most then, doesn't it?

Your partner, your career, your lifestyle?

Sometimes there has to be a compromise if you want it to work.

[AyBee]

HD Adam said:

Depends what you love most then, doesn't it?

Your partner, your career, your lifestyle?

Sometimes there has to be a compromise if you want it to work.

I'd view compromise as exactly that, not giving up your life for someone.

[NRS]

AyBee said:

HD Adam said:

Depends what you love most then, doesn't it?

Your partner, your career, your lifestyle?

Sometimes there has to be a compromise if you want it to work.

I'd view compromise as exactly that, not giving up your life for someone.

AyBee said:

That's crap. Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you should be willing to sacrifice the rest of your life for them.

It goes both ways though - should she be ok giving her life to someone who she hardly ever sees? Or it could be applied to the job - just because he likes it does it mean he should sacrifice a lot of his personal life for it?

[chonok]

Life aint all about money, and it certainly isn't about working for someone else anymore (as far as I am conncerned)

Have you told us what you do? Is there any way you can set up on your own closer to home?

[beanbag]

I see what you're all saying but I hardly work insane hours....at least not comparing to those around me.

My job is effectively 9am-6:30pm which is pretty standard, but it's the 3 hours of commuting that chew up my day. My current day goes like this:

6:15am - wake up and walk dogs
6:45am - shower, sort and feed dogs and breakfast
7:45am - leave for work
9:00am - arrive at work
6:30pm - leave work (sometimes I leave at 6pm)
8:00pm - arrive home
8:00pm - help cook, clean sort out things
9:00pm - watch movie/tv together
10:30pm - short dog walk together
11:00pm - get ready for bed
12:00am - hopefully asleep, ready to start again at 6:15!

I see this as normal aside from my commute and like I said, it's nothing out of the ordinary from comparing those around me. Of course there are times when I travel for work and probably once or twice a month, I stay longer for a drink after work with friends and colleagues.

The 3 hours I spend in my car are effectively useless hours leaving me unable to do sweet FA. This is why in I think if I could move closer to reduce this commute by half, that would result in an extra hour of time in the evenings together and make us both a lot happier.

I just don't see what I'm doing is much different to the majority of us so to say drop it, and try something else would result in the same unless I work from home or I work incredibly close to home.

It's a tough situation to be in.

[Sump]

That is not normal.

Normal is up at 7:30, leave house at 8 15am, work for 9am, home by 6pm.

[beanbag]

Sump said:

That is not normal.

Normal is up at 7:30, leave house at 8 15am, work for 9am, home by 6pm.

I genuinely don't know anyone in my line of work that gets home by 6pm!

I suppose I get up early because I want to exercise the dogs and also go for a run / walk to wake up. I also spend ages getting ready because I hate rushing so giving myself an hour means I can saunter about at a leisurely pace and enjoy my shower, breakfast and read the morning news. It's just my routine.

I also leave the house early because the earlier I leave, the earlier I get back home in the evenings so they go hand in hand.

[The Moose]

What line of work are you in?

[beanbag]

The Moose said:

What line of work are you in?

I'm a Product Manager in a growing online start-up business.

[IvanSTi]

Tell her to man the fk up, she sounds needy. Either get her to deal with the fact you have a proper job (explain that to her) or do as she says and be forever walked upon