When can I start my claim for enhanced redundancy?

[Roger645]

I was made redundant last Friday and I am currently on 12 weeks notice so am on garden leave whilst my notice period runs out. Redundancy payment is statutory minimum and I am going to pursue a claim to to previous enhanced rounds of redundancy being offered. When can I start this process? Do I need to wait till my redundancy payment is made which I am being told is at the end of April or can I start now?

Thanks

Roger

Edited by Roger645 on Tuesday 31st March 08:39

[slow_poke]

Roger645 said:

I was made redundant last Friday and I am currently on 12 weeks notice so am on garden leave whilst my notice period runs out. Redundancy payment is statutory minimum and I am going to pursue a claim to to previous enhanced rounds of redundancy being offered. When can I start this process? Do I need to wait till my redundancy payment is made which I am being told is at the end of April or can I start now?

Thanks

Roger

If you don't mind my asking Roger, and if you wouldn't mind answering - Why do you think you are entitled to a claim to enhanced 'dundy?

[c8bof]

Your redundancy procedure should have details of how to raise a grievance. If not, use your standard grievance procedure and do it promptly.

Previous enhanced redundancy packages may not necessarily set a precedent for the next time around, especially if only offered once previously? Was this not the case? ( I might be getting confused with another poster.)

(My background and knowledge - HR Manager having recently administered a redundancy process)

[Roger645]

Thanks for the responses. The company doesn't have a standard redundancy policy and the reason for my thinking regarding the enhanced package is that is has been offered multiple times before and as far as I know this is the first time stand terms have been offered, so I intend to pursue it on the basis of custom and practice.

[Jasandjules]

Have you an effective date of termination? A termination letter? Does it offer any appeal? If so you need to undertake this process. After that contact ACAS to raise a dispute (this stops the clock for up to 28 days on the claim for which you have three months less one day to lodge the claim).

[Roger645]

Jasandjules said:

Have you an effective date of termination? A termination letter? Does it offer any appeal? If so you need to undertake this process. After that contact ACAS to raise a dispute (this stops the clock for up to 28 days on the claim for which you have three months less one day to lodge the claim).

The termination letter states that my emplyment terminated on the 31st of March and I can appeal on the companies decision to make me redundant on the same day. There is nothing about appealing the package.

Also I am on 12 weeks notice so effectively I terminate at the end of June hence my confusion.

[edc]

Have you taken any further advice beyond the posts you have made here? I think there is a lot more information to be gleaned to qualify your claim eg numbers affected by current and previous rounds of redundancies, financial health of the company at the time, whether m/any of those were volunteers, whether the caclulation basis has been the same in previous rounds or simply just more than statutory, your understanding/basis for previous calculation methods etc

[Roger645]

edc said:

Have you taken any further advice beyond the posts you have made here? I think there is a lot more information to be gleaned to qualify your claim eg numbers affected by current and previous rounds of redundancies, financial health of the company at the time, whether m/any of those were volunteers, whether the caclulation basis has been the same in previous rounds or simply just more than statutory, your understanding/basis for previous calculation methods etc

Thanks for the reply and yes I have had external advice, some from a friend who's a lawyer and also from ACAS. Financial wise the company is a profitable multinational software company and all previous calculations have been the same method, this was confirmed by HR & the MD.

[edc]

Roger645 said:

Jasandjules said:

Have you an effective date of termination? A termination letter? Does it offer any appeal? If so you need to undertake this process. After that contact ACAS to raise a dispute (this stops the clock for up to 28 days on the claim for which you have three months less one day to lodge the claim).

The termination letter states that my emplyment terminated on the 31st of March and I can appeal on the companies decision to make me redundant on the same day. There is nothing about appealing the package.

Also I am on 12 weeks notice so effectively I terminate at the end of June hence my confusion.

Follow the correct process as laid out above. Write your complaint to the company and then follow up with ACAS.

You may have 12 weeks notice but based on what you write your employment terminates on 31st March. Whether you are paid out your notice or not is another matter though.

[Roger645]

edc said:

Roger645 said:

Jasandjules said:

Have you an effective date of termination? A termination letter? Does it offer any appeal? If so you need to undertake this process. After that contact ACAS to raise a dispute (this stops the clock for up to 28 days on the claim for which you have three months less one day to lodge the claim).

The termination letter states that my employment terminated on the 31st of March and I can appeal on the companies decision to make me redundant on the same day. There is nothing about appealing the package.

Also I am on 12 weeks notice so effectively I terminate at the end of June hence my confusion.

Follow the correct process as laid out above. Write your complaint to the company and then follow up with ACAS.

You may have 12 weeks notice but based on what you write your employment terminates on 31st March. Whether you are paid out your notice or not is another matter though.

Thanks for your advice, I have written to the company suggesting that the termination date is incorrect as I am on notice due to there being no provision in my contract for payment in lieu of notice. I will also appeal on the basis of the settlement. I have spoke to ACAS and as they instructed I have asked for details why the enhanced package is not being offered this time.

[edc]

When you write 'settlement' do you meant payment? Or, are you referring to a settlement or compromise agreement?

[Roger645]

edc said:

When you write 'settlement' do you meant payment? Or, are you referring to a settlement or compromise agreement?

Sorry, payment. A compromise agreement was offered but based on the terms I chose not to take it.

[davek_964]

Roger645 said:

Sorry, payment. A compromise agreement was offered but based on the terms I chose not to take it.

I thought the compromise agreement was generally part of an enhanced redundancy package? If you chose not to take that, then I would only expect them to offer statutory minimum.

For what it's worth - I commented on a similar thread recently where we were offered redundancy that was less than payments made in redundancies 10 months before (but was still much higher than statutory). We had lawyers involved who tried to get it increased but they failed - and they made it clear to us that previous payments were not a precendent and were basically irrelevant.

[Jasandjules]

davek_964 said:

We had lawyers involved who tried to get it increased but they failed - and they made it clear to us that previous payments were not a precendent and were basically irrelevant.

There are numerous cases in this area, unfortunately they disagree a little. However that does not mean that previous payments were irrelevant, there is far more to it than that.

[davek_964]

Jasandjules said:

davek_964 said:

We had lawyers involved who tried to get it increased but they failed - and they made it clear to us that previous payments were not a precendent and were basically irrelevant.

There are numerous cases in this area, unfortunately they disagree a little. However that does not mean that previous payments were irrelevant, there is far more to it than that.

For example?

It's too late for me, since it's all done and dusted - but I'd be curious to know. Both our employer - and our lawyers - said that previous payments did not create a precedent - and ACAS said similar. The bottom line seemed to be that you could quote similar recent redundancies in the industry, you could quote similar redundancies by the company, and you could appeal to their good nature - but the bottom line was that all they had to do was pay statutory minimum - that's what the law says, and that's all they have to do. Although you must have "meaningful discussions" as part of the consultation process - it basically seemed to be : You're getting more than statutory - you can make all the arguments you like but it won't make any difference because we're already giving more than the law says we have to.

[edc]

[quote=davek_964]

I thought the compromise agreement was generally part of an enhanced redundancy package? If you chose not to take that, then I would only expect them to offer statutory minimum.

[quote]

A compromise agreement does not go hand in hand with an enhanced redundancy payment. I have run several rounds of redundancies across a few companies and have always paid more than statutory minimum. The only times a compromise agreement has been used have been particularly contentious individual cases. Some organisations though like to use a compromise agreement as a matter of course.

[davek_964]

edc said:

davek_964 said:

I thought the compromise agreement was generally part of an enhanced redundancy package? If you chose not to take that, then I would only expect them to offer statutory minimum.

A compromise agreement does not go hand in hand with an enhanced redundancy payment. I have run several rounds of redundancies across a few companies and have always paid more than statutory minimum. The only times a compromise agreement has been used have been particularly contentious individual cases. Some organisations though like to use a compromise agreement as a matter of course.

And I think our company was a matter-of-course one.

But actually, I didn't really mean that an enhanced redundancy would always be hand in hand with a compromise agreement. What I really meant was that I'm surprised a compromise agreement would be required by the company if the redundancy payment is only statutory minimum.
So the fact that the OP was offered a compromise agreement they refused to accept, and now wants to challenge statutory minimum redundancy left me a bit confused. Because I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that compromise agreements were only used with enhanced packages (even if they are not always needed for enhanced packages) it makes it sound like the OP was offered an enhanced package with a compromise agreement, didn't like the terms and rejected it - and has therefore been paid statutory minimum - which they want to challenge.
I assume I'm wrong, but it would be good for the OP to clarify what redundancy package was offered with the compromise agreement - was it the statutory minimum they've now received? Or something different?

[Jasandjules]

davek_964 said:

For example?

Park Cakes or quinn v calder

[Roger645]

davek_964 said:

edc said:

davek_964 said:

I thought the compromise agreement was generally part of an enhanced redundancy package? If you chose not to take that, then I would only expect them to offer statutory minimum.

A compromise agreement does not go hand in hand with an enhanced redundancy payment. I have run several rounds of redundancies across a few companies and have always paid more than statutory minimum. The only times a compromise agreement has been used have been particularly contentious individual cases. Some organisations though like to use a compromise agreement as a matter of course.

And I think our company was a matter-of-course one.

But actually, I didn't really mean that an enhanced redundancy would always be hand in hand with a compromise agreement. What I really meant was that I'm surprised a compromise agreement would be required by the company if the redundancy payment is only statutory minimum.
So the fact that the OP was offered a compromise agreement they refused to accept, and now wants to challenge statutory minimum redundancy left me a bit confused. Because I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that compromise agreements were only used with enhanced packages (even if they are not always needed for enhanced packages) it makes it sound like the OP was offered an enhanced package with a compromise agreement, didn't like the terms and rejected it - and has therefore been paid statutory minimum - which they want to challenge.
I assume I'm wrong, but it would be good for the OP to clarify what redundancy package was offered with the compromise agreement - was it the statutory minimum they've now received? Or something different?

The compromise agreement offered PILON but at basic pay and not including other standard benefits. This was tax free as it was classed as damages as there is no provision for PILON in my contract. The compromise agreement also made me responsible for both parties liabilities should HMRC decide that there was in fact tax to be paid on the damages.

[davek_964]

Roger645 said:

The compromise agreement offered PILON but at basic pay and not including other standard benefits. This was tax free as it was classed as damages as there is no provision for PILON in my contract. The compromise agreement also made me responsible for both parties liabilities should HMRC decide that there was in fact tax to be paid on the damages.

OK, but PILON is separate from redundancy pay. So even if they are trying to give PILON instead of worked notice I thought they would still have to offer redundancy on top of that - was that just statutory minimum?

Gov website says you can still be paid PILON even if it's not in your contract, which should be full pay plus compensation for benefits. And my understanding is, PILON is taxable - ours was.