Rejecting a used car - sales of goods advice

Rejecting a used car - sales of goods advice

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GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
I recently bought a low mileage ex-demo car in the mid -£40k range. Within 5 weeks and under 200 miles of driving it has developed a number of faults and I have discovered a significant design issue. The faults include an engine misfire making the car unusable and the exhaust splitting open. The design issue means I will have to in-effect "modify" the cooling system to prevent the car over-cooling and damaging the engine if driven in cool ambient temperatures.

IMO the dealer (the primary dealer owned and run by the manufacturer) have been less than satisfactory in dealing with the issue and I am considering simply asking for my money back. Where do I stand legally in doing this? In my opinion the car is not of "merchantable quality", but is this a difficult point to debate given the faults?

Edited by GreigM on Wednesday 1st April 12:48

eybic

9,212 posts

173 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
You need to give them chance to fix the faults before being able to reject it I believe.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
eybic said:
You need to give them chance to fix the faults before being able to reject it I believe.
They were notified of the issues 10 days ago and have done nothing, and its looking like a number of weeks at minimum before I have the car useable again, how long do I have to give them to rectify the situation?

shanes2k

30 posts

113 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
have a read through this, hope it helps. link below

What is product liability in contract and in tort?

Product liability and safety
Product liability and safety includes for instance contractual liability of vendors or suppliers of goods. On the other hand there can be a tortious liability of producers and others. Contractual liability arises if the product is faulty or defective. This constitutes a breach of contract as there are implied terms in the contract which state that the goods must be fit for purpose. The contractual relationship between the parties implies also other implied terms as in accordance with the Statute. Tortious liability may arise if there was damage caused by defective product and if there is no direct contractual relationship between the parties however there has to be an element of negligence.


http://www.inbrief.co.uk/regulations/product-liabi...


Sheepshanks

32,528 posts

118 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
I recently bought a low mileage ex-demo car in the mid -£40k range. Within 5 weeks and under 200 miles of driving it has developed a number of faults and I have discovered a significant design issue. The faults include an engine misfire making the car unusable and the exhaust splitting open. The design issue means I will have to in-effect "modify" the cooling system to prevent the car over-cooling and damaging the engine if driven in cool ambient temperatures.
The snag with pointing at things like this, is that you're a bit stuffed unless it affects every car.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
The snag with pointing at things like this, is that you're a bit stuffed unless it affects every car.
It does, I've verified this with other owners. They were perhaps less aware of the damage they were doing to the engine.

ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
The snag with pointing at things like this, is that you're a bit stuffed unless it affects every car.
It wouldn't be a design issue if it didn't affect every car, I call bulls hit on it though, No one in the business of making £40k+ cars is making such fundamental design error, and certainly not climate related ones which can be spotted so easily by some having the car for 5 weeks in a country which can be cold, but is by no means extreme.

Modern cars are often designed to run at much lower operating temperatures than they used to for greater efficiency, so the design fault is in fact most likely a design feature.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
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So what's the car?

eybic

9,212 posts

173 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Please no naming and shaming but it isn't hard to delve to find out what it is.

Silent1

19,761 posts

234 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
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Is this a caterham?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
The design issue means I will have to in-effect "modify" the cooling system to prevent the car over-cooling and damaging the engine if driven in cool ambient temperatures.
Or the thermostat needs replacing.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
eybic said:
Please no naming and shaming but it isn't hard to delve to find out what it is.
Indeed, without speculation on the car, I'm just looking for advice on the legal standing.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Or the thermostat needs replacing.
What if it has none?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Or the thermostat needs replacing.
What if it has none?
I cannot believe any manufacturer has developed and released a new car with no way of regulating the lower bound of the normal temperature range. Normally, that'd be a 'stat. These days, I refuse to rule out the possibility of an ECU-controlled electronic water pump.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
I cannot believe any manufacturer has developed and released a new car with no way of regulating the lower bound of the normal temperature range. Normally, that'd be a 'stat. These days, I refuse to rule out the possibility of an ECU-controlled electronic water pump.
Definitely not, nothing, nada, zilch.....it gets as cold as the air flowing through the front of the rad which results in nothing short of a precipitous plunge from normal operating temp to stone cold in a few minutes of driving.

ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
What if it has none?
Then it probably doesn't need one, this is how modern engines work, the ecu regulates temperature, and because it is computer controlled rather than a fixed opening temperature , it can operate at different temperatures for different scenarios, designers are no longer bound by a single optimum operating temperature.

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
ging84 said:
GreigM said:
What if it has none?
Then it probably doesn't need one, this is how modern engines work, the ecu regulates temperature, and because it is computer controlled rather than a fixed opening temperature , it can operate at different temperatures for different scenarios, designers are no longer bound by a single optimum operating temperature.
It does need one. There is nothing regulating the lower end of temperature - the ECU is not involved in any way. I have spoken to the factory that built the car and they confirmed this is the case.

btcc123

1,243 posts

146 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
You say the dealer knows about your problems but have done nothing.Before you reject the car you have to give them a couple of chances to fix it and time is not on your side so if I was you I would take the car to the dealers,ask for a replacement car while yours if fixed and if it still has an issue when you get it back to formally reject the car.

Ring their customer service department at their HO to make them aware if the problems you are having,the dealer knowing your problems but are not doing anything about it,that you are thinking of rejecting the car and for them to sort it out.

I am surprised that the dealer did not ask you to take the car to their garage.you say they have done nothing so I think there is more to the story that you are telling us.

Edited by btcc123 on Wednesday 1st April 13:56


Edited by btcc123 on Wednesday 1st April 14:02

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
GreigM said:
Definitely not, nothing, nada, zilch.....it gets as cold as the air flowing through the front of the rad which results in nothing short of a precipitous plunge from normal operating temp to stone cold in a few minutes of driving.
Frankly, I'm mildly incredulous. What IS this vehicle? (The reference to a radiator has bopped my first thought on the head)

GreigM

Original Poster:

6,726 posts

248 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Frankly, I'm mildly incredulous. What IS this vehicle? (The reference to a radiator has bopped my first thought on the head)
I'd rather not make this a big naming/shaming, have PM'd you. Just want to know my legal position if I don't get cooperation.