Can someone explain this new(?) riding technique?
Discussion
A bit of a tangent but Colin Edwards was just saying he was always taught to weight the outside footpeg as the weight is pushing down on the tyre where as if you put more weight on the inside peg it's pushing your weight laterally. Again not something that I'd ever need but quite interesting.
Whilst that sounds kinda compelling, physics says no..
As long as you're staying static relative to the bike (i.e. not moving / falling off it), you have to have an equilibrium between all your contact points. The problem is then one of the (combined) centre of gravity of the bike vs the tyres contact patches (and perhaps the odd knee / elbow). If the weight is transferred to the inside foot to the outside foot, then something else must compensate - the arms, the upper body, the knees against the tank, or the position of the bike..
The internal forces between you and the bike have no bearing, however much we might like them to.
By moving around the bike we change the COG of the combined machine plus ride - e.g. climbing to the front on acceleration, hanging off to move the COG lower and to the inside allowing the bike part to be more vertical..
There can also be (temporary) dynamic situations such as pedrosa's thing where he looks like he's throwing himself off the inside to get the bike upright on corner exit, but by definition that can't go on for very long before you actually depart the bike
As long as you're staying static relative to the bike (i.e. not moving / falling off it), you have to have an equilibrium between all your contact points. The problem is then one of the (combined) centre of gravity of the bike vs the tyres contact patches (and perhaps the odd knee / elbow). If the weight is transferred to the inside foot to the outside foot, then something else must compensate - the arms, the upper body, the knees against the tank, or the position of the bike..
The internal forces between you and the bike have no bearing, however much we might like them to.
By moving around the bike we change the COG of the combined machine plus ride - e.g. climbing to the front on acceleration, hanging off to move the COG lower and to the inside allowing the bike part to be more vertical..
There can also be (temporary) dynamic situations such as pedrosa's thing where he looks like he's throwing himself off the inside to get the bike upright on corner exit, but by definition that can't go on for very long before you actually depart the bike
LoonR1 said:
Here's a good example of it. Note his left foot is miles off the rearset
So what's your thoughts on why he's doing it? He does look to be hanging off more but hard to say without a comparison pic of the same guy.Getting more weight to the inside/more hang off seems to be the most likely explanation but you'd surely reach a point where you're hanging off too much and being a hindrance to yourself.
sradmarty said:
So what's your thoughts on why he's doing it? He does look to be hanging off more but hard to say without a comparison pic of the same guy.
Getting more weight to the inside/more hang off seems to be the most likely explanation but you'd surely reach a point where you're hanging off too much and being a hindrance to yourself.
I've got no idea, but I struggle with the idea that you're hunting for the rearset with your foot, as the first thing you have to do to shift weight back upright, or to the other side. By the same token, I have no idea why people dangle their legs when braking. Getting more weight to the inside/more hang off seems to be the most likely explanation but you'd surely reach a point where you're hanging off too much and being a hindrance to yourself.
I can't see that hanging off more will help much either, as you have to get back on the bike. What do I know though, I'm a crappy track day rider at best compared to these guys who are making a living out of it.
His leg wouldn't be able to touch the peg.
I always wonder why people stick there leg out while braking. I can't see it being for balence or just in case the bike starts to fall over as they normally are back on the peg before turn in. The only other thing I can think of is that it's possibly to get extra wind resistance to assist braking rather than the leg being tucked into the fairing. Probably way off the mark with that but I can't think of any other reason.
I always wonder why people stick there leg out while braking. I can't see it being for balence or just in case the bike starts to fall over as they normally are back on the peg before turn in. The only other thing I can think of is that it's possibly to get extra wind resistance to assist braking rather than the leg being tucked into the fairing. Probably way off the mark with that but I can't think of any other reason.
theshrew said:
His leg wouldn't be able to touch the peg.
I always wonder why people stick there leg out while braking. I can't see it being for balence or just in case the bike starts to fall over as they normally are back on the peg before turn in. The only other thing I can think of is that it's possibly to get extra wind resistance to assist braking rather than the leg being tucked into the fairing. Probably way off the mark with that but I can't think of any other reason.
I always wonder why people stick there leg out while braking. I can't see it being for balence or just in case the bike starts to fall over as they normally are back on the peg before turn in. The only other thing I can think of is that it's possibly to get extra wind resistance to assist braking rather than the leg being tucked into the fairing. Probably way off the mark with that but I can't think of any other reason.
MotoMatters.com said:
"This is quite difficult to answer. We can believe that when you put your legs in this position on braking, the center of gravity is more inside and you can keep straighter on braking for a longer time." So was the point of the leg wave to move the center of gravity of bike and rider? "I think so, because on braking, you have to be quite straight on the bike, so you cannot move your shoulder or anything else," Coulon replied.
Coulon accepted that the mental aspect could be one reason which riders dangle their legs. Could it be that seeing other riders do it, and believing it conferred an advantage, other riders start to copy the behavior? "Yes, of course," Coulon agreed, but more physical aspects also played a role. "But maybe also because of bike geometry, and the kind of tire being used, and what they are able to do on corner entry, so step-by-step they can use this sticking the leg outside," the Frenchman added. "But for me, it's really complicated to explain." He had seen the maneuver become ever more prevalent among riders, Coulon said. "Like everybody else, I can see step-by-step, one rider, two riders, and more and more riders are using this style. But themselves, they don't know really why, and sometimes they don't feel they are doing it."
In a previous article, I argued that Valentino Rossi was one of the first riders to start to use his leg off the pegs on a regular basis, and that the fact that he saw other riders copying him gave him a confidence boost and a mental advantage. Though Coulon emphasized that he believed there were sound physical reasons for the leg wave, he agreed that riders tend to watch each other closely and copy each other.
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/12/19/explaining_the_leg_wave_guy_coulon_and_w.htmlCoulon accepted that the mental aspect could be one reason which riders dangle their legs. Could it be that seeing other riders do it, and believing it conferred an advantage, other riders start to copy the behavior? "Yes, of course," Coulon agreed, but more physical aspects also played a role. "But maybe also because of bike geometry, and the kind of tire being used, and what they are able to do on corner entry, so step-by-step they can use this sticking the leg outside," the Frenchman added. "But for me, it's really complicated to explain." He had seen the maneuver become ever more prevalent among riders, Coulon said. "Like everybody else, I can see step-by-step, one rider, two riders, and more and more riders are using this style. But themselves, they don't know really why, and sometimes they don't feel they are doing it."
In a previous article, I argued that Valentino Rossi was one of the first riders to start to use his leg off the pegs on a regular basis, and that the fact that he saw other riders copying him gave him a confidence boost and a mental advantage. Though Coulon emphasized that he believed there were sound physical reasons for the leg wave, he agreed that riders tend to watch each other closely and copy each other.
Sure I read/heard/possibly made up that the leg dangle was a combo of a) making it more difficult to pass as now a rider would have to go another foot or so offline to pass as well as b) shifting weight to the seat rather than the peg as it's further back and help keeps the rear tyre on/closer to the deck under hard braking.
Could be utter tosh mind but seems plausible.
Could be utter tosh mind but seems plausible.
Yoda400 said:
So was mine, when my rearset fell off at Edwinda's, Mallory.
Bit embarassing that. Loctite is now my friend.
i had this 'issue' yesterday. i must of been steering it with the pegs and weighting them so much that the left one broke off.... it wasnt just my mate not fitting them properly honest. Unfortunately the linkage all fell off as well and the rod either hit the floor or my boot in the panic and it knocked it from near redline in 3rd down to 2nd. Right along the pit wall at croft so in full view of everyone. Loads of engine noise/tyre squeel as it locked up/huge girly scream coming from my helmet later and i somehow didnt die but it was embarrassing and very scary Bit embarassing that. Loctite is now my friend.
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