Contract says 25-75% travel, should I quit?
Discussion
Help. I used to really enjoy my job, but I'm having trouble getting back to happy. I think the only "escape" is to quit. Because I don't agree with how the company is run.
- We're a small-to-medium, <30, professional services, been here since Day 1
- Very flat hierarchy, almost everyone below board level answers to the COO
- Few job titles are the same, many people benefit from working from home, or live near the office
- Only 3 or 4 of us (of the 30) do this amount of revenue-earning travel
When I started, I travelled 25% maximum. Worked from home, or, went in to the office to catch up. Then I was asked to help on a project. 1.5 hours to the customer site EACH WAY. At first, twice a week. Then the guy I shadowed quit, so 3 days a week, sometimes all week. I used to hotel it, but it wasn't fair on my wife. It dropped to two days last year after I trained someone up, but then he quit, so it's back with me.
I'm in trap where: I'm the best man for the job. Well-liked by the people paying for my time, and well-liked by the customer whose site it is. Good news for my employer, as I've brought continuity, VFM, project success, I prioritise, I escalate, I am calm under pressure.
My contract says: 25%-75% travel. I've gone back over my diary for 2015 Q1, and I'm at 80%. For one month it was 60%. For a year, maybe two, it has been 50-75%. I could probably go back through the diary and prove it.
But here's my problem. They don't care.
I travel significantly more than nearly all of my colleagues. Don't compare yourself to others, they say.
But they work from home, their day is shorter, easy to book leave, and I'm suffering here, challenging project, hard to book leave. They shrug. Why are you being difficult?
I asked for more salary. No sorry, you're as high as we'll go.
I asked to quit and return as a contractor. No thanks.
I asked for a different project. Welllll that's difficult, this is our most important project and the customer wants you.
Can we reorganise? I'd like others to step in. Wellll that's hard, we've got Bob on XYZ for the next few months, Alice on ABC.
How come Colleague X travels about 10%, quit, and then you rehired him on new terms? No answer.
How are you linking success of any of us to reward, I say. Blank looks. Like I'm an alien.
I asked the CEO, do you think 3hrs in the car is normal? Yes he says, nothing unusual about that. He didn't back down. He played me for a fool by getting angry and telling me I wasn't loyal.
I asked for a car allowance because of the travel. It's a salary hike, right? Sorry chum, no.
I feel unrewarded. I feel overworked. In a situation where the the customer would have me for extra days a month, but I am not up for it any more. Why travel more, for a company, that isn't rewarding me? After two years being knocked back, I don't create opportunities any more. I could do more work, travel 5 days, speed up the project, or surge a problem, smash a bottleneck. Now I stay quiet. Sorry, just 3 days on site guys. On another site tomorrow. Cya Monday.
I feel like... this is where my head is: IF I'D BEEN MEDIOCRE, NOT EXCELLENT, I'D HAVE THE SAME SALARY, AN EASIER LIFE, AND THE SAME BONUS (ie nothing!).
HR asked me, last year, anything you want, come to me. But have never got traction on anything we've discussed. I've got emails that show it. Is it a game? I'm supposed to say "give me x or I quit?"? The implication, from their lack of action over the years, is I MUST quit.
Do I have to strap on a pair - do I have to quit?
I don't want to quit. My wife's pregnant.
I also don't want to travel 80%. PH collective... help.
- We're a small-to-medium, <30, professional services, been here since Day 1
- Very flat hierarchy, almost everyone below board level answers to the COO
- Few job titles are the same, many people benefit from working from home, or live near the office
- Only 3 or 4 of us (of the 30) do this amount of revenue-earning travel
When I started, I travelled 25% maximum. Worked from home, or, went in to the office to catch up. Then I was asked to help on a project. 1.5 hours to the customer site EACH WAY. At first, twice a week. Then the guy I shadowed quit, so 3 days a week, sometimes all week. I used to hotel it, but it wasn't fair on my wife. It dropped to two days last year after I trained someone up, but then he quit, so it's back with me.
I'm in trap where: I'm the best man for the job. Well-liked by the people paying for my time, and well-liked by the customer whose site it is. Good news for my employer, as I've brought continuity, VFM, project success, I prioritise, I escalate, I am calm under pressure.
My contract says: 25%-75% travel. I've gone back over my diary for 2015 Q1, and I'm at 80%. For one month it was 60%. For a year, maybe two, it has been 50-75%. I could probably go back through the diary and prove it.
But here's my problem. They don't care.
I travel significantly more than nearly all of my colleagues. Don't compare yourself to others, they say.
But they work from home, their day is shorter, easy to book leave, and I'm suffering here, challenging project, hard to book leave. They shrug. Why are you being difficult?
I asked for more salary. No sorry, you're as high as we'll go.
I asked to quit and return as a contractor. No thanks.
I asked for a different project. Welllll that's difficult, this is our most important project and the customer wants you.
Can we reorganise? I'd like others to step in. Wellll that's hard, we've got Bob on XYZ for the next few months, Alice on ABC.
How come Colleague X travels about 10%, quit, and then you rehired him on new terms? No answer.
How are you linking success of any of us to reward, I say. Blank looks. Like I'm an alien.
I asked the CEO, do you think 3hrs in the car is normal? Yes he says, nothing unusual about that. He didn't back down. He played me for a fool by getting angry and telling me I wasn't loyal.
I asked for a car allowance because of the travel. It's a salary hike, right? Sorry chum, no.
I feel unrewarded. I feel overworked. In a situation where the the customer would have me for extra days a month, but I am not up for it any more. Why travel more, for a company, that isn't rewarding me? After two years being knocked back, I don't create opportunities any more. I could do more work, travel 5 days, speed up the project, or surge a problem, smash a bottleneck. Now I stay quiet. Sorry, just 3 days on site guys. On another site tomorrow. Cya Monday.
I feel like... this is where my head is: IF I'D BEEN MEDIOCRE, NOT EXCELLENT, I'D HAVE THE SAME SALARY, AN EASIER LIFE, AND THE SAME BONUS (ie nothing!).
HR asked me, last year, anything you want, come to me. But have never got traction on anything we've discussed. I've got emails that show it. Is it a game? I'm supposed to say "give me x or I quit?"? The implication, from their lack of action over the years, is I MUST quit.
Do I have to strap on a pair - do I have to quit?
I don't want to quit. My wife's pregnant.
I also don't want to travel 80%. PH collective... help.
Edited by fvey on Tuesday 14th April 23:42
fvey said:
I don't want to quit. My wife's pregnant.
Well that seems like the most compelling reason to quit to me - you can find another job before you leave and hope you do so before the baby arrives. Does your wife earn similar to you? Could always take maternity leave yourself and have her go back to work. I would not want to be in your position with a new baby. You'll be doing your child much more good by being around. Other problem to consider is that if you quit now, you may not get paternity leave at your next place of work.
Many places won't give you paternity leave until you've completed a certain amount of time with the company. It's the reason I'm currently waiting to look for a new job until after baby arrives and paternity leave is over.
Many places won't give you paternity leave until you've completed a certain amount of time with the company. It's the reason I'm currently waiting to look for a new job until after baby arrives and paternity leave is over.
elanfan said:
Ask the client if they'd take you on as a contractor directly. If so you can outline more areas you can help and provide more vfm.
Should be a big salary hike. Then move close to your place of work no travel
There are almost certainly contracts in place which are going to prevent that happening.Should be a big salary hike. Then move close to your place of work no travel
KFC said:
There are almost certainly contracts in place which are going to prevent that happening.
This happened to me, I quit and went to work for a client, ex employer went bats
t. New employer told them to STFU. This worked, although it does very much depend on the relationship between companies. So while there may be contracts to prevent it, it isn't always desirable to enforce these clauses.From what you write, it sounds like you are getting the sh*tty end of the stick. However before you jump in any particular direction, work out what it is you want:
Is the travel really an issue?
Contracting directly to the client isn't going to fix that.
Would more money fix the travel issue?
Either from your employer or directly from the end client, or in a new job?
Would a new role elsewhere be something you could find near home?
Would this involve travelling?
Possibly further?
Do you simply want some recognition from your employer, and you would like that to be a combination of more money and more flexible working?
If you do not want (and will not) quit then your options will be limited.
You say you get on well with the end client. Can you do any work remotely? If so what do they say about that?
Is the travel really an issue?
Contracting directly to the client isn't going to fix that.
Would more money fix the travel issue?
Either from your employer or directly from the end client, or in a new job?
Would a new role elsewhere be something you could find near home?
Would this involve travelling?
Possibly further?
Do you simply want some recognition from your employer, and you would like that to be a combination of more money and more flexible working?
If you do not want (and will not) quit then your options will be limited.
You say you get on well with the end client. Can you do any work remotely? If so what do they say about that?
They think you won't quit. Its a poker game.
CALL: If you quit then they can enact some special situation rule and keep you, if you don't... happy days for them. You do all the work with none of the pay. Win Win. If they give it to you just bacause you asked then they are in the same situation but without calling your bluff.
RAISE: If you are about to quit anyway just say, "no i'm not going... I'm not obliged / get XYZ to do it. BUT be prepared to leave or they'll smell it and not offer you a good deal.
RE-RAISE: Give them a week to sort an improved offer or you are off.
Sounds like they would be in a serious load of hassle if you did.
CALL: If you quit then they can enact some special situation rule and keep you, if you don't... happy days for them. You do all the work with none of the pay. Win Win. If they give it to you just bacause you asked then they are in the same situation but without calling your bluff.
RAISE: If you are about to quit anyway just say, "no i'm not going... I'm not obliged / get XYZ to do it. BUT be prepared to leave or they'll smell it and not offer you a good deal.
RE-RAISE: Give them a week to sort an improved offer or you are off.
Sounds like they would be in a serious load of hassle if you did.
silverous said:
Life's too short to work somewhere that is taking the P***. Quit. They'll probably make you an offer to stay, be prepared for that and think about what you want to stay (if you do want to stay under a certain set of circumstances).
Even if they do make an offer to stay, you'd need to ask yourself if you want to work for someone who never sorted the situation when you asked politely, multiple times, and only responds to threats to leave. Reality is that it depends how easy it would be to get another job, and if the conditions would be better.
If so, I would get looking and if you see another job, go for it
Don't bother with any further discussion, they are not going to give in until you actually say your are leaving, at that point I'd just leave anyway. They have had lots of opportunities to sort the problem
If so, I would get looking and if you see another job, go for it
Don't bother with any further discussion, they are not going to give in until you actually say your are leaving, at that point I'd just leave anyway. They have had lots of opportunities to sort the problem
Find another job, then hand in your notice. There's two possible outcomes:
1) Your existing company realises that you're actually willing to leave, and that they'd be in the st without you. They offer you a raise, car allowance, flexibility etc etc - basically you get what you want and get to stay at your existing company.
2) Your existing company shrugs, calls your bluff and waves bye-bye to you after your notice period. You go to work somewhere else where you've (hopefully!) negotiated yourself a suitable package.
The key here is if you're threatening to leave, you have to be prepared to commit to it. Make sure you have somewhere suitable to go before you hand your notice in.
Good luck
1) Your existing company realises that you're actually willing to leave, and that they'd be in the s
t without you. They offer you a raise, car allowance, flexibility etc etc - basically you get what you want and get to stay at your existing company.2) Your existing company shrugs, calls your bluff and waves bye-bye to you after your notice period. You go to work somewhere else where you've (hopefully!) negotiated yourself a suitable package.
The key here is if you're threatening to leave, you have to be prepared to commit to it. Make sure you have somewhere suitable to go before you hand your notice in.
Good luck
Look for another job immediately but just make sure that any future employer is aware of the imminent baby arrival.
That's what I did and they agreed paternity time off paid when they offered me the job. If you don't ask...
Your current employer sounds like they're exploiting you about as much as you'll let them.
That's what I did and they agreed paternity time off paid when they offered me the job. If you don't ask...
Your current employer sounds like they're exploiting you about as much as you'll let them.
I would accept that sort of travel when I was single.
With your OH pregnant I would say that those conditions are simply unacceptable when you get to the point of new baby. If the company is aware of your family situation and isnt making plans to help you then time to go.
Noting that you are a new member here - is your boss known to frequent these forums?
Would you be prepared to move if the client took you on direct or as a contractor?
You dont say what it is that you do, are you technical or managerial? consultoid?
Would the role change if you were working with an end user company rather than through a service company? ie would you take on business / project management stuff rather than technical stuff?
How would you like to see your role change?
With your OH pregnant I would say that those conditions are simply unacceptable when you get to the point of new baby. If the company is aware of your family situation and isnt making plans to help you then time to go.
Noting that you are a new member here - is your boss known to frequent these forums?
Would you be prepared to move if the client took you on direct or as a contractor?
You dont say what it is that you do, are you technical or managerial? consultoid?
Would the role change if you were working with an end user company rather than through a service company? ie would you take on business / project management stuff rather than technical stuff?
How would you like to see your role change?
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