Lane discipline getting worse ?
Discussion
mph1977 said:
Vipers said:
shandyboy said:
My problem is that I can't be confident because of the a
holes like you who straight-line roundabouts!
My daily drive takes me up Anderson Drive through Aberdeen. It's a two lane carriageway both ways, not a dual carriageway, (except little bits of it).holes like you who straight-line roundabouts!Just about 99.9% of drivers entering from both lanes at 6'oclock, exit at 12'oclock.
I am probably less than 1% who bother indicating left as I pass the 9'oclock exit. Why can't drivers bother indicating, it lets those entering from 12'oclock position they. Isn't rocket science.
airsafari87 said:
And then you have the middle lane hoggers who can't abide being passed by a lesser car than theirs in the outside lane and feel the need to display their superior virility by flooring it just as you draw level with the rear quarter of their car.
Yes Mr RS6 on the 3 lane uphill section of the A1M at Carville on Sunday the 3rd of May 2015 I am talking about you in particular here.
For the purpose of the story I was maintaining a steady 70mph in the inside lane, on the fairly clear and empty motorway, forward visibility of the road of say a quarter of a mile? Mr RS6 maintaining a steady 50mph.
As I approach the uphill section of motorway where it widens out to 3 lanes Mr RS6 is in the middle lane and I have almost caught up with him (as we have both been maintaining the same speeds as previous), halfway up the hill I am in a position to overtake Mr RS6 so move into the outside lane, pretty much as I am level with his rear bumper the back end drops and away he goes up the hill reaching a much higher speed than the one I have maintained since joining the motorway 3 miles earlier.
Pull in to the now vacant middle lane (as there is now a car on the inside lane) and continue my journey up the road, only to catch up with Mr RS6 (while still maintaining the same speed) and pass a little further down the road.
Maybe Mr RS6 wasn't aware that the car approaching him wasn't a 135i, but only a lowly 116D?
Maybe Mr RS6 didn't notice my child sat in the passenger seat?
Maybe Mr RS6 had just received his peacock feather back from the dry cleaners and was so proud of them he felt the need to display them in all their gloriousness?
Who knows?
Everybody loves a good story.
Everybody loves a nice car (And an RS6 is a really nice car)
But nobody likes a k**b jockey behind the wheel.
This seems to be happening more and more lately.Yes Mr RS6 on the 3 lane uphill section of the A1M at Carville on Sunday the 3rd of May 2015 I am talking about you in particular here.
For the purpose of the story I was maintaining a steady 70mph in the inside lane, on the fairly clear and empty motorway, forward visibility of the road of say a quarter of a mile? Mr RS6 maintaining a steady 50mph.
As I approach the uphill section of motorway where it widens out to 3 lanes Mr RS6 is in the middle lane and I have almost caught up with him (as we have both been maintaining the same speeds as previous), halfway up the hill I am in a position to overtake Mr RS6 so move into the outside lane, pretty much as I am level with his rear bumper the back end drops and away he goes up the hill reaching a much higher speed than the one I have maintained since joining the motorway 3 miles earlier.
Pull in to the now vacant middle lane (as there is now a car on the inside lane) and continue my journey up the road, only to catch up with Mr RS6 (while still maintaining the same speed) and pass a little further down the road.
Maybe Mr RS6 wasn't aware that the car approaching him wasn't a 135i, but only a lowly 116D?
Maybe Mr RS6 didn't notice my child sat in the passenger seat?
Maybe Mr RS6 had just received his peacock feather back from the dry cleaners and was so proud of them he felt the need to display them in all their gloriousness?
Who knows?
Everybody loves a good story.
Everybody loves a nice car (And an RS6 is a really nice car)
But nobody likes a k**b jockey behind the wheel.
It's not like I] drive a threatening, blingy car either. Just a humble Saab 95, and it's not even an Aero. Yet only this morning, I had some absolute cock in a Cayman S who was absolutely determined that he was going to maintain his speed down the slip road to get in front of me as he joined the M1.
All he needed to do was ease back a little bit as I had tried to do) and he could have slipped behind me and then overtaken safely
Vipers said:
Dammit said:
Thankfully there is a solution to all of these woes, and it'll be with us soon:
Nothing new there, just another fking "Robot" driving a car 
There is a rounabout near me thatis two lanes wide,with a two lane approach, but on the approach and going around both lanes are clearly marked to be used for the second exit. I am in the LH lane, so turd brain in RH lane just goes from his lane cutting across my bows, Judicious use of my horn just gets a wave in return, but at least he waived
And on the A329M southbound junction M4 there are roadworks. a 50 limit and a width restriction of 6ft 6in in the outer lane,limiting me to the inside only.
Got traffic behingd me, traffic passing on RH side,so another coffin dodger on the slip does his 'i am indicating therefore i HAVE right of way' and tries to get into my nearside front wheelarch. Again horn and later i get him zip past and slowdown to give me 'WTF are you doing look!!!)
Just ignored the old fart,he would have lost.
And on the A329M southbound junction M4 there are roadworks. a 50 limit and a width restriction of 6ft 6in in the outer lane,limiting me to the inside only.
Got traffic behingd me, traffic passing on RH side,so another coffin dodger on the slip does his 'i am indicating therefore i HAVE right of way' and tries to get into my nearside front wheelarch. Again horn and later i get him zip past and slowdown to give me 'WTF are you doing look!!!)
Just ignored the old fart,he would have lost.
caelite said:
Vipers said:
Dammit said:
Thankfully there is a solution to all of these woes, and it'll be with us soon:
Nothing new there, just another fking "Robot" driving a car Another dick head on the roundabout today. Two lanes on approach, right lane arrow road says turn right, left lane straight on.
Straight on goes to a single lane as you exit the roundabout. Car in inside lane with a horse box approaches in L1, decides to indicate right as they enter the roundabout, whoops I thought, but no, as they pass the first exit they indicate left and take the 2nd exit.
Same procedure on next two roundabouts, enter at 6'oclock, indicate right on entry, pass exit at 9 then indicate left and take exit at 12.
For our local chappies, this is the A90 northbound as you enter the roundabout at the Bridge of Dee.
Straight on goes to a single lane as you exit the roundabout. Car in inside lane with a horse box approaches in L1, decides to indicate right as they enter the roundabout, whoops I thought, but no, as they pass the first exit they indicate left and take the 2nd exit.
Same procedure on next two roundabouts, enter at 6'oclock, indicate right on entry, pass exit at 9 then indicate left and take exit at 12.
For our local chappies, this is the A90 northbound as you enter the roundabout at the Bridge of Dee.
Edited by Vipers on Saturday 4th July 22:57
Edited by Vipers on Sunday 5th July 08:07
First of all, it must be acknowledged that it is not in contravention with any law simply for a vehicle to pass another vehicle on either the left or the right. The most straightforward demonstration of this is during built up traffic, where a driver has no control over how fast they travel, but can merely follow the flow of the lane they are in. It is always advised not to change lanes during heavy traffic (obviously except when leaving the carriageway), so the speed an individual lane flows is completely isolated from the other lanes; the only caveat from this being when traffic is caused by lanes merging. But, control of your lane flow is still out of your hands. As a result, if you are travelling in the first lane of a multi lane carriageway, but the lane to your right is travelling at a slower speed, you are not expected to match their speed. You are not only entitled to, but are expected to follow the flow of your lane, resulting in you passing vehicles on their left (undertaking).
To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
Mr10secs said:
First of all, it must be acknowledged that it is not in contravention with any law simply for a vehicle to pass another vehicle on either the left or the right. The most straightforward demonstration of this is during built up traffic, where a driver has no control over how fast they travel, but can merely follow the flow of the lane they are in. It is always advised not to change lanes during heavy traffic (obviously except when leaving the carriageway), so the speed an individual lane flows is completely isolated from the other lanes; the only caveat from this being when traffic is caused by lanes merging. But, control of your lane flow is still out of your hands. As a result, if you are travelling in the first lane of a multi lane carriageway, but the lane to your right is travelling at a slower speed, you are not expected to match their speed. You are not only entitled to, but are expected to follow the flow of your lane, resulting in you passing vehicles on their left (undertaking).
To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
Good grief. Advanced driver I'm guessing. To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Good grief. Advanced driver I'm guessing.
No but courtesy of a friend who is and just loves to argue the toss, he uses this whenever he needs and its not failed yet, I think his point is it depends on how long you stay in the inside lane after you have passed the offending car. Mr10secs said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
Good grief. Advanced driver I'm guessing.
No but courtesy of a friend who is and just loves to argue the toss, he uses this whenever he needs and its not failed yet, I think his point is it depends on how long you stay in the inside lane after you have passed the offending car. Mr10secs said:
First of all, it must be acknowledged that it is not in contravention with any law simply for a vehicle to pass another vehicle on either the left or the right. The most straightforward demonstration of this is during built up traffic, where a driver has no control over how fast they travel, but can merely follow the flow of the lane they are in. It is always advised not to change lanes during heavy traffic (obviously except when leaving the carriageway), so the speed an individual lane flows is completely isolated from the other lanes; the only caveat from this being when traffic is caused by lanes merging. But, control of your lane flow is still out of your hands. As a result, if you are travelling in the first lane of a multi lane carriageway, but the lane to your right is travelling at a slower speed, you are not expected to match their speed. You are not only entitled to, but are expected to follow the flow of your lane, resulting in you passing vehicles on their left (undertaking).
To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
Situation 1,2,and 3 covered here.To look at a different scenario with the same principle - You are travelling on a quiet multi lane carriageway, in the first lane, and you find yourself travelling faster than a vehicle ahead, but it is sitting in the second lane (Yes, it is illegal, but a prominent percentage of motorists still moronically insist on doing it). Obviously, you can traverse to the third lane to pass them and then back to the first (NB. every lane change must be performed as a separate manoeuvre to the previous and next, so 5 separate manoeuvres just to pass one car). However, you are also within your rights to stay in the first lane and pass them on the left. This is not written in a law, as the other vehicle is breaking the law and so the situation should theoretically never occur.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake
It doesnt allow situation 2 or 3 - only situation 1
hman said:
Situation 1,2,and 3 covered here.
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake
It doesnt allow situation 2 or 3 - only situation 1
I would have said it also covers situation 2 and to some extent sit 3 depending on when you move to lane 2 or 1 and how long before you pass the vehicle to the right and how long you remain in said lane or even pull to the other lane on the left, after all the thing that messes up the equation is the fact that the car to the right is acting illegally268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake
It doesnt allow situation 2 or 3 - only situation 1
Edited by Mr10secs on Sunday 5th July 20:24
Passing on the left is very open to interpretation.
I do it quite regularly if lane 3 is busy, however I always cover my brake pedal to accommodate a last minute lane change and never do it at a slip road etc.
Having said that yesterday I was in lane 1 doing around 60mph on the M11 heading into London. Lane 2 was only doing around 65mph and a Golf + decided it was perfectly safe to undertake everything on the hard shoulder.
I just think driving standards are getting worse in general.
I do it quite regularly if lane 3 is busy, however I always cover my brake pedal to accommodate a last minute lane change and never do it at a slip road etc.
Having said that yesterday I was in lane 1 doing around 60mph on the M11 heading into London. Lane 2 was only doing around 65mph and a Golf + decided it was perfectly safe to undertake everything on the hard shoulder.
I just think driving standards are getting worse in general.
Mr10secs said:
hman said:
Situation 1,2,and 3 covered here.
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake
It doesnt allow situation 2 or 3 - only situation 1
I would have said it also covers situation 2 and to some extent sit 3 depending on when you move to lane 2 or 1 and how long before you pass the vehicle to the right and how long you remain in said lane or even pull to the other lane on the left, after all the thing that messes up the equation is the fact that the car to the right is acting illegally268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake
It doesnt allow situation 2 or 3 - only situation 1
Edited by Mr10secs on Sunday 5th July 20:24
Eventually you catch up with a motorists in L3 doing 50, what are you supposed to do? I am guessing we would all keep going, who would move over two lanes slow down, and hope Mr. Muppet moves over!
Yes, I find that lane discipline is getting worse. If I'm in the left lane & come up on someone in the middle lane, then I have to go into the middle, then the outside lane, overtake, then back to the middle and eventually the left lane. Occasionally I get fed up doing that & keep in the left lane to undertake. It's a bit naughty, but the Traffic Cops should be pulling in these middle & outside lane dimwits. Yes the straight liner at the roundabout. One to watch. And finally, the driver who turns right in the left hand lane or vice versa. If I can get away with it I'll drive slowly & cut them up.
P.S. I do drive normally like most folk do.
P.S. I do drive normally like most folk do.
WD39 said:
Jasandjules said:
Not just lane discipline in the same direction, I am more frequently seeing people cut corners (A few times causing me to emergency stop to avoid a collision as I head to the junction), and people travelling in my lane when travelling in the opposite direction - even around blind corners..
This is now reaching epidemic proportions.At least on motorways you can undertake and aren't going to have a head on collision. Still, I'm sure they're not speeding so that's the main thing.
Mr10secs said:
First of all, it must be acknowledged that it is not in contravention with any law simply for a vehicle to pass another vehicle on either the left or the right.
To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
You are correct in the first paragraph, but wrong in the second. Or perhaps you are aware of a section of the RTA that states this is illegal, because I'm not.To consider a third situation, which demonstrates what is illegal and what police do have a problem with - You are travelling behind a vehicle in the third lane, passing other vehicles in the second lane. The second lane becomes clear for a distance, but the vehicle ahead does not move over. So as to get in front of the vehicle ahead of you in the third lane, you traverse to the second lane, pass the vehicle on its left and then move back to the third lane. This is illegal and very frowned upon. The particular point to consider is that you changed to lane to the left specifically to pass and then move back, not that you were already in that lane and remained there.
What you may be referring to is the number of police officers who will completely ignore the miscreant that is blocking the outside lane and pursue you for what they construe is a risky or dangerous maneouvre. I have always totally disagreed with this simply because most of them do so with no evidence of danger; it is an assumption.
Now that failing to move over is a statutory offence it should stop this practice and force the police to address the issue correctly, but I see no evidence of this up here and the practice is continuing.
J
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