Diesel just doesn't win me over....
Discussion
BrownBottle said:
GokTweed said:
BrownBottle said:
4cyl diesels are pretty unremarkable as are a lot of 4cyl petrol engines.
Nobody jumped on this? E65Ross said:
It's not the performance that's the issue but it's so brash and unrefined. The noise is awful, the power seems to drop off considerably past 4k rpm.
Why would you want to go past 4K RPM in a diesel, when the peak power is normally around 2.5K to 3K.The noise of a 4-cylinder diesel is not great, but if you go up-market to 5 cylinders plus, the sound can be really good.
I am averaging about 48mpg.1.6 TDCI 8 valve Citroen diesel.Plenty of short runs for a decent size car G/Picasso not bad.Engine noise is very quiet.I do put the higher grade diesel in the tank more about keeping the injectors clean.This engine is good, will run a long time if looked after.I spend about 100 quid a month on fuel.
Welshbeef said:
BrownBottle said:
Shame we've never had the V8 diesel E Class Mercs over here.
Spill what are they like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIIIyOwSak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqrAhzE7sE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzU7HqhkyYs
I decided to get a derv for my long commute so got what I thought was a good compromise in a 2007 Toyota Auris T180 2.2 diesel. Toyota have had a go at it but giving this model independent suspension all round and bigger brakes but there's just no getting away from the fact that when you chuck it into a corner the suspension has to deal with the huge mass of that cast iron lump up front which ruins everything. That coupled with the fact I'm only seeing 35 mpg means I doubt I'll ever bother with diesel again.
I'd much rather use my old Saab 9-3 HOT convertible on a daily basis despite the fact it handles like a barge and there's loads of wind noise were i doing less commuting miles. Petrol power wins hands down for me.
I'd much rather use my old Saab 9-3 HOT convertible on a daily basis despite the fact it handles like a barge and there's loads of wind noise were i doing less commuting miles. Petrol power wins hands down for me.
Clamjouster said:
I decided to get a derv for my long commute so got what I thought was a good compromise in a 2007 Toyota Auris T180 2.2 diesel. Toyota have had a go at it but giving this model independent suspension all round and bigger brakes but there's just no getting away from the fact that when you chuck it into a corner the suspension has to deal with the huge mass of that cast iron lump up front which ruins everything. That coupled with the fact I'm only seeing 35 mpg means I doubt I'll ever bother with diesel again.
Thats got nothing to do with diesel - you bought the wrong car. Edited by daemon on Tuesday 21st April 12:17
Petrol vs Diesel? It's all about horses for courses.
Over a certain annual mileage, diesels are a no-brainer IMO and I even quite enjoy driving the good ones – 5 cylinder Volvos, 6 cylinder BMWs etc are very nice engines.
But a lot of 4 cylinder diesels are still very unrefined even today and even the legendary torque seems strangely lacking on some of the more recent offerings too.
Over a certain annual mileage, diesels are a no-brainer IMO and I even quite enjoy driving the good ones – 5 cylinder Volvos, 6 cylinder BMWs etc are very nice engines.
But a lot of 4 cylinder diesels are still very unrefined even today and even the legendary torque seems strangely lacking on some of the more recent offerings too.
Monkeylegend said:
Yes, in the E class it develops 168 bhp, and about 290ftlb torque. I think it will be the same in that, but the C will be a bit faster and certainly as economical if not a bit better. Also has twin variable vane turbo so very little turbo lag.
Are you thinking of buying it? Looks a nice car.
Edited to add Mercland have a very good reputation.
In the C/E 250 version, it develops 204 bhp and 500 nm (379 lb/ft). It has some serious midrange pull. I had one as a loaner and would trade my 350 for one if I did more miles. Front end is much lighter.Are you thinking of buying it? Looks a nice car.
Edited to add Mercland have a very good reputation.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Monday 20th April 20:57
ZX10R NIN said:
Well they sound like this & if they go half as well as my old 4.2tdi A8 did I'd have bought one of thes instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIIIyOwSak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqrAhzE7sE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzU7HqhkyYs
Is that supposed to sound good? A mixture of a tractor and a very airy, loose bottomed fart.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIIIyOwSak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqrAhzE7sE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzU7HqhkyYs
daemon said:
Clamjouster said:
I decided to get a derv for my long commute so got what I thought was a good compromise in a 2007 Toyota Auris T180 2.2 diesel. Toyota have had a go at it but giving this model independent suspension all round and bigger brakes but there's just no getting away from the fact that when you chuck it into a corner the suspension has to deal with the huge mass of that cast iron lump up front which ruins everything. That coupled with the fact I'm only seeing 35 mpg means I doubt I'll ever bother with diesel again.
Thats got nothing to do with diesel - you bought the wrong car. Edited by daemon on Tuesday 21st April 12:17
Imagine the responses had he written of all petrol cars after driving a Toyota Auris 1.6 petrol
lbc said:
E65Ross said:
It's not the performance that's the issue but it's so brash and unrefined. The noise is awful, the power seems to drop off considerably past 4k rpm.
Why would you want to go past 4K RPM in a diesel, when the peak power is normally around 2.5K to 3K.The noise of a 4-cylinder diesel is not great, but if you go up-market to 5 cylinders plus, the sound can be really good.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
Welshbeef said:
Have you actually looked at the linked I posted? Clearly not as all of those diesels have peak power well over 4k revs in fact 4,750rpm with rev limits of 5,750-6,000rpm.
I don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
If you look at an average Mondeo, it makes peak torque at around 1850 rpm and peak power at 3500 rpm. So you get the 140hp or whatever it is further up the rev range, put you get the 350nm torque at under 2k rpmI don't know of any diesel with peak power @ 2.5k revs. Was that motor boating?
On a graph I think that'd look like torque starts high and decreases with revs, whereas power starts low and increases with revs. Somewhere there's a crossover point
I've driven a Mondeo TDCi. It's best to change up around 2500 rpm to be onto the power in the next gear. It's not nice to change at 3.5k rpm, you've missed the bit in the next gear where you keep accelerating and progressing, it's easier to skip a gear, like 2nd to 4th and keep going than hit 3rd and hold it for a couple of seconds if yo're revving it higher than what's optimal
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