RE: Smart motorways are dumb: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
As one of the "trigger happy gantry operators all too keen to issue speed limit slapdowns, seemingly on a whim," may I point out that 90% of reduced speed limits are set by an automated system known as MIDAS and not by any person. We know it's not perfect but it is designed to protect the back of queues etc from fast moving traffic slamming into the back of it. There are very strict rules on when we may set reduced speeds and/or lane closures and any operator ignoring these would not only be very likely to lose their job but may also face prosecution as well.
grumpy52 said:
Build a motorway along the south coast between Dover and Portsmouth and this would reduce the flow on the southern M25 /M23 /M3 .
I live down here and to get anywhere along the coast to the west especially ina truck has to be done via the M25.
Superb idea, but never going to happen. Too many NIMBYs.I live down here and to get anywhere along the coast to the west especially ina truck has to be done via the M25.
For more fantasy roads that would save lives and save time,
but are never going to happen:
http://www.abd.org.uk/bypass.htm
DaveCWK said:
Gaz. said:
As above, that mumsnet thread on Friday highlighted the shocking thought process of a sizable chunk of a popular forum. For those that didn't read it:
OP sees a car starting to overtake her on a single carriageway road, so she speeds up, then she brakes [as does the other car] preventing the other car from tucking in behind, which then has a serious head on accident behind the OP, who drives off on her way to work.
Do you have a link to that thread? Sounds shocking!OP sees a car starting to overtake her on a single carriageway road, so she speeds up, then she brakes [as does the other car] preventing the other car from tucking in behind, which then has a serious head on accident behind the OP, who drives off on her way to work.
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BiggestVern said:
As one of the "trigger happy gantry operators all too keen to issue speed limit slapdowns, seemingly on a whim," may I point out that 90% of reduced speed limits are set by an automated system known as MIDAS and not by any person. We know it's not perfect but it is designed to protect the back of queues etc from fast moving traffic slamming into the back of it. There are very strict rules on when we may set reduced speeds and/or lane closures and any operator ignoring these would not only be very likely to lose their job but may also face prosecution as well.
Not perfect is an under statement I think the seven pages already generated might just give you a clue it is not working and just causing more frustration rather than help.Taita said:
Would it be useful to have a list of HA Control Room phone numbers that we can phone to let them know when there are 40mph limits at 0300 and no roadworks?
A few of the control room guys said they are happy for people to phone up on the other thread.
List of numbers in a wiki?
You're on to something here. There could be a useful amount of power in "the crowd" as it were. A few of the control room guys said they are happy for people to phone up on the other thread.
List of numbers in a wiki?
Furthermore, drivers are not limited to volunteering a quick phone call to the HA control room. For example: Drivers may also share impromptu moments with the public (say, via YouTube).
"40mph limits at 0300 and no roadworks?"
It would not be the first time that a few seconds of citizen video should lead to coverage in mainstream media, coupled with a bit of shame for the government authority (in this case: the HA)
Taita said:
Would it be useful to have a list of HA Control Room phone numbers that we can phone to let them know when there are 40mph limits at 0300 and no roadworks?
A few of the control room guys said they are happy for people to phone up on the other thread.
List of numbers in a wiki?
I've posted the number on here umpteen times. 0121 335 8300.A few of the control room guys said they are happy for people to phone up on the other thread.
List of numbers in a wiki?
speedyguy said:
unsprung said:
coupled with a bit of shame for the government authority (in this case: the HA)
You complain about iffy/incorrect signals but neglect to name the correct entity, It changed to Highways England over 3 weeks ago 
Is that irony ? 
t, same muppets running it.Yay make a bit of money from the speeders! But lets be honest, is it really the speeders who cause accidents? As someone who spends a fair amount of time at alot of rtc's, i would suggest only 2 to 3 percent of them are a result of speed. The other 98 percent are a result of intoxication, inexperience, poor judgement, distraction, lack of attention or plain stupidness! But we cant catch that on a camera!!!! But neither can the bobby on the beat because there isnt any!!!
OK, i havent read the 8 pages of comments so what i say may have been said already.
as a user of the M62 stretch of new Smart motorway i will say that they have made a massive difference to the section past leeds and have meant that i no longer avoid the motorway on a 50 mile commute. i'm for them on that basis.
also, i will criticise the writers rant about being issued tickets for the second the speed limits change. i was recently taught on a speed awareness course that the cameras are deactivated when the limits change for 15 seconds, and then when they are reactivated they flash but no not record for another 15 seconds [i may be wrong about the amount of time] because their main purpose is to keep traffic moving, they use enforcement so people listen to it. if you really want to blast through the gantries then get to know which ones have the cameras on and don't.
they have made a positive difference around birmingham too in my opinion too.
also, its a fact of life that you rarely see what the hazard is, because by the time you arrive there if you are travelling at the speed limit its clearly obvious that the hazard has gone, otherwise you would be slower.
this is a poor article not up to the typical standard of pistonheads, and i felt the need to comment on that basis.
as a user of the M62 stretch of new Smart motorway i will say that they have made a massive difference to the section past leeds and have meant that i no longer avoid the motorway on a 50 mile commute. i'm for them on that basis.
also, i will criticise the writers rant about being issued tickets for the second the speed limits change. i was recently taught on a speed awareness course that the cameras are deactivated when the limits change for 15 seconds, and then when they are reactivated they flash but no not record for another 15 seconds [i may be wrong about the amount of time] because their main purpose is to keep traffic moving, they use enforcement so people listen to it. if you really want to blast through the gantries then get to know which ones have the cameras on and don't.
they have made a positive difference around birmingham too in my opinion too.
also, its a fact of life that you rarely see what the hazard is, because by the time you arrive there if you are travelling at the speed limit its clearly obvious that the hazard has gone, otherwise you would be slower.
this is a poor article not up to the typical standard of pistonheads, and i felt the need to comment on that basis.
Dagz said:
Yay make a bit of money from the speeders! But lets be honest, is it really the speeders who cause accidents? As someone who spends a fair amount of time at alot of rtc's, i would suggest only 2 to 3 percent of them are a result of speed. The other 98 percent are a result of intoxication, inexperience, poor judgement, distraction, lack of attention or plain stupidness! But we cant catch that on a camera!!!! But neither can the bobby on the beat because there isnt any!!!
Back in the heady Safe Speed days, iirc, the stat was 7% of KSI due to excessive speed only as a contributory factor.The rest are a combination of factors... and once you have other factors, excessive speed can be excessive under the limit, not braking in time for a clear issue ahead, blah blah blah... it's easy to have excessive speed into a crash if other factors mean you don't brake in good time.
Dave
One of the problems is that there aren't enough people in the control rooms, so the speed limit isn't raised again soon enough after a problem clears, which affects credibility, and problems might not be spotted for some time - possibly for as long as half an hour. If there is a stationary car on a 'running' hard shoulder, the probability of it being hit by something is pretty high.
Jex
Jex
I have found the m5/m6 north far better - it really helps and honestly most of the time 'making progress' is just not an option. But it flows now rather than stop start. Southbound its a little improved but still too busy around junction 9 then the current 8 being one lane.
On the M42 however, what a mess. if you use the hard shoulder as you are supposed to you have to move over and out of it in every junction, so people either race down the hard shoulder or ignore using it all together - not much of an improvement IMO.
It seems to work on busy streches but i'd hate to see it on nice flowing bits like the m54 or m5.
On the M42 however, what a mess. if you use the hard shoulder as you are supposed to you have to move over and out of it in every junction, so people either race down the hard shoulder or ignore using it all together - not much of an improvement IMO.
It seems to work on busy streches but i'd hate to see it on nice flowing bits like the m54 or m5.
dbanbery said:
they have made a positive difference around birmingham too in my opinion too.
Totally disagree. The only part they make a difference to is round the M6. The hard shoulder running is a joke, 99% of the time it's un-used until the traffic grinds to a halt and then it's the fastest lane. Or when the HS running is turned off for miles *and* the motorway reduced to 40mph because of a car parked in the emergency layby.
Junction 3A still snarls up just the same as it ever did and the changing of the merge with the M40 staying on the M42 going south bound is just makes matters worse.
The jams are just the same in the same places, I've only seen a increase in travel times.
Thankfully I'm no longer using the M42 daily, I used to look forwards to wet days as they would turn off the smart motorways and I'd make better time with less stress.
Lets not even mention the idiotic idea that is traffic lights on the slip roads, the stupid frequent changing of speed limits when the motorway is clear for as far as you can see.
Or for that matter the worry that you've been blissfully on cruse control at 60 only to spot at the last moment that the next sign is 50 (which still looks all too much like 60). Is that a change in limit? Has it been 50 for the last umpteen and you've missed them?
Still, it's cheaper than widening.
A few weeks ago we were stranded on M42 at Junction 1 in a near lethal spot with a totally dead car
We waited 4/1/2 hours for rescue due to delays in recovery vehicles
Did we see one traffic cop/man who likes to dress as one or spotted by camera?..............Of course not
As it was going dark and we had no lights the recovery driver arrived and swore a lot saying the inside lane is required to be closed if anyone breaks down where we did.Oh well thanks for that.
Still here to tell the tale but will it make a difference.Mmmmm.
Managed motorways my a**e
We waited 4/1/2 hours for rescue due to delays in recovery vehicles
Did we see one traffic cop/man who likes to dress as one or spotted by camera?..............Of course not
As it was going dark and we had no lights the recovery driver arrived and swore a lot saying the inside lane is required to be closed if anyone breaks down where we did.Oh well thanks for that.
Still here to tell the tale but will it make a difference.Mmmmm.
Managed motorways my a**e
Cliftonite said:
DaveCWK said:
Gaz. said:
As above, that mumsnet thread on Friday highlighted the shocking thought process of a sizable chunk of a popular forum. For those that didn't read it:
OP sees a car starting to overtake her on a single carriageway road, so she speeds up, then she brakes [as does the other car] preventing the other car from tucking in behind, which then has a serious head on accident behind the OP, who drives off on her way to work.
Do you have a link to that thread? Sounds shocking!OP sees a car starting to overtake her on a single carriageway road, so she speeds up, then she brakes [as does the other car] preventing the other car from tucking in behind, which then has a serious head on accident behind the OP, who drives off on her way to work.
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