HGV vs caravan smash on the M6

[Lugy]

It's certainly annoying when people 'cut' in at the last minute (or beyond in this case!), especially when you've been waiting patiently to get to the slip road. The Honda is in no doubt the cause of this collision, however Mr lorry could have held back, expressed his displeasure other ways and still had a video of a near miss to post to the internet.
Carrying on after the first contact resulting in the bigger, road blocking collision was just silly.

[stuartmmcfc]

I've just watched and one thing I noticed was that the HGVs engine note increased just before the impact. Not only did he not back off but he actually put his foot down to close the gap further.
Totally avoidable accident caused by 2 idiots who thought they were invulnerable .

Great match though

(Just thought, was the HGVs driver a Hammers fan? No wonder he was in a bad mood.)

Edited by stuartmmcfc on Monday 20th April 21:59

[surveyor]

eldar said:

Vipers said:

RogerVulva said:

I don't think the truck driver was at fault at all. Certainly a lack of courtesy but I'd probably be the same to be honest.

If you had been in the truckers position in your own vehicle, what would you have done?

If you'd been driving the caravan dragger, what would you have done?

If I'd put myself in that position I would a) pick on the Renault - far more easy prey (although a lorry driver would appreciate size a little better) or if going for the lorry gap I would put the caravan in front of the lorry rather than alongside, and let the Renault go creating the gap.

In reality I would not be keen on hanging around Lane 2 - so would most likely be heading down the other carriageway.

[Who me ?]

Another take- caravan driver wanted off at that junction so unless he was not paying attention, he'd had a mile to try to get into Left lane -it's called planing in advance ,not that it's something well done on the M6. I used to see it regularly at J3 going north and J2 south - cars waiting till the last minute to pull into a small gap and truckers gripping their buttocks as they might not have enough stopping distance. What was wrong with caravan man pulling in front of traffic just after the mile countdown and indicating. I've found that most truckers will pull back and flash you in, as you've been courteous enough not to pull in in their safety gap .

[UK345]

Caravan drivers fault but the trucker was being a cock. He could of slowed down and let the man in. It almost looks like he moves out a little bit so that he clips the caravan and then goes along the side of the car. Was almost like the caravan driver didn't think the trucker would stop hence why he cut in front of him.

The trucker sounds like the typical cock who gets all vocal behind the wheel. Yes he has just had an accident but no need for the language etc (obviously not very well educated)

[eldar]

surveyor said:

If I'd put myself in that position I would a) pick on the Renault - far more easy prey (although a lorry driver would appreciate size a little better) or if going for the lorry gap I would put the caravan in front of the lorry rather than alongside, and let the Renault go creating the gap.

In reality I would not be keen on hanging around Lane 2 - so would most likely be heading down the other carriageway.

Exactly No sensible driver would try to barge a truck out the way. Mr Shed Dragger tried to force a space for himself where one didn't and wasn't going to exist. Twice. Slow learner.

[surveyor]

Add another into the mix. Some car drivers are not great at towing. I well remember a Jeremy Vine phone in where a woman was saying it was scary changing lanes so they just stayed in Lane 2 (my head was close to exploding at that point).

Given he had no mirrors (and if I need them in a Range Rover he bloody does) I wonder whether he's just generally incompetent and whether the lorry driver would have been better keeping well clear full stop.

[MGJohn]

Drive Blind said:

funny to see the crv driver getting squashed.

As others have pointed out he's one of those "I'm indicating so get out my way" drivers who always push in at the front of a queue.

Would I damage my car proving a point? certainly not, but it's good to see somebody else doing it. Hopefully mr crv bawbag will modify his future lane discipline and lane changing behaviour.

In my extensive experience, "I've indicated so get out of my way" is a ploy mostly executed by commercial vehicle drivers particularly white van man mindset types which now infest our roads.

Worse than that, move first then signal and maybe not even check their mirror is another ploy I see all too frequently. Nobody is patient ( =safe ) any more. That move-then signal- maybe check mirror too late annoys me far more than the worst form of middle lane hogs. It's now so prevalent I wonder if more recently trained drivers have been taught that.

[anonymous-user]

Stupid people often try to make last minute lane changes whilst thinking an indicator gives them right of way. Stupid people also accelerate to close gaps and prevent others from "Pushing in".

This is what happens when two stupid people meet each other - and everybody else behind them gets to suffer their idiocy.

[Matt UK]

vikingaero said:

Two people who deserve each other...

Shame though, as the rest of the M6 didn't deserve them...

[vonhosen]

Who me said:

Another take- caravan driver wanted off at that junction so unless he was not paying attention, he'd had a mile to try to get into Left lane -it's called planing in advance ,not that it's something well done on the M6. I used to see it regularly at J3 going north and J2 south - cars waiting till the last minute to pull into a small gap and truckers gripping their buttocks as they might not have enough stopping distance. What was wrong with caravan man pulling in front of traffic just after the mile countdown and indicating. I've found that most truckers will pull back and flash you in, as you've been courteous enough not to pull in in their safety gap .

Nobody is saying it wasn't poor planning by the caravaner. The caravaner is potentially committing offences. But none of that absolves the lorry driver from his responsibilities. He fell short of what is expected of him, his driving was below standard too. Instead of trying to teach the caravaner a lesson about their poor driving by using his own poor driving, he should have left it to the authorities to deal with the caravaner if he believes there were offences & provided evidence as a witness. All he has potentially done is left himself open to prosecution & financial loss for no benefit.

This didn't all happen suddenly, it was easily avoidable by either party but they were both just too bloody minded & foolish.

[Rawwr]

[surveyor]

vonhosen said:

Nobody is saying it wasn't poor planning by the caravaner. The caravaner is potentially committing offences. But none of that absolves the lorry driver from his responsibilities. He fell short of what is expected of him, his driving was below standard too. Instead of trying to teach the caravaner a lesson about their poor driving by using his own poor driving, he should have left it to the authorities to deal with the caravaner if he believes there were offences & provided evidence as a witness. All he has potentially done is left himself open to prosecution & financial loss for no benefit.

This didn't all happen suddenly, it was easily avoidable by either party but they were both just too bloody minded & foolish.

So wish we had a 'like' button.

[Gareth79]

I'm going with the "truck driver was rude, but it's the level of rudeness that is seen all the time from all drivers". The car drive was actively stupid and dangerous, by driving into a lane that clearly wasn't empty or even close to being so. When leaving it that late your mind must ALWAYS be half on "if I can't get in I'll just drive on and take the next exit", if they are towing a caravan they are unlikely to be on a schedule that is life-and-death.

[Vipers]

eldar said:

Vipers said:

RogerVulva said:

I don't think the truck driver was at fault at all. Certainly a lack of courtesy but I'd probably be the same to be honest.

If you had been in the truckers position in your own vehicle, what would you have done?

If you'd been driving the caravan dragger, what would you have done?

What any sane person would do, merge in when there was a gap, well before the turn off.

[MGJohn]

Vipers said:

What any sane person would do, merge in when there was a gap, well before the turn off.

Yes, what most folks would do. However, if new or not familiar with the area, even with the best of forward planning, have you ever found yourself in the wrong lane at the wrong time? I have and it can be a tad worrying in high density traffic flows although usually there are one or two folks who understand and make room to allow you in provided you go about things politely.

Neither of the two parties involved with this incident are guilty of being polite.

I have often used that same M6-M5 interchange and it can be a tad crowded at times and usually some form of road works exacerbates the traffic flow problems. The M42-M5 interchange further south is far better arranged but even then, in certain high density traffic conditions, that can be a pain too.

Both out of order there and I hope both get their cumuppance.

[getawayturtle]

DAVEVO9 said:

The Mad Monk said:

Why didn't you tell us that it wasn't a proper HGV before??

I posted that clip to show a proper HGV so that others can see the truck, ( just call it a truck shall we? ) that hit the car/caravan is clearly not a HGV.

It had already been mentioned before I posted that about the "truck" not being a HGV.

For me, it makes all the difference about the OP's mentioning it being a HGV in the title.

Most people referring to, when posting replies, as the "HGV" driver etc.

He is just a glorified VAN driver.

The vid clip shows a Proper HGV driver dealing with a similar situation, "professionally"

Hope that clears things up for you.

Edited by DAVEVO9 on Monday 20th April 16:07

When I put HGV, I meant it as a blanket expression. As I think most people are doing.


Wiki:
"A large goods vehicle (also heavy goods vehicle, medium goods vehicle, LGV and HGV), is the European Union term for any truck with a gross combination mass (GCM) of over 3,500 kilograms (7,716 lb)."

Nowhere did I put it was "proper" a fully laden 44 ton artic!

I'm assuming the vehicle in question is one of these:

7.5t, probably the "glorified van" you mentioned.

Or a 12t, definitely classed as a HGV!



Perhaps a friendly mod could replace "HGV" with "Lorry" in the title for those that care enough.

Edited by getawayturtle on Monday 20th April 23:49

[Marvib]

That video has gone viral, 1.6 million views in 2 days.

[V8forweekends]

Marvib said:

That video has gone viral, 1.6 million views in 2 days.

No it hasn't, that was mostly me watching over and over again

[barker22]

There is two separate incidents in that clip. The second smack is 100% the CRV's fault.
I still think it should all go as the CRV's fault, however the truck driver could have handled it better.

When you watch, the point at which the CRV starts to cross, look at where the caravan is, the door of the caravan isn't visible. Looking up the caravan specs its a Bailey Pegasus GT65 and looking at the placement of the door its one of the larger models which puts it at 7.4m long minimum.
http://www.baileypegasusgt65.co.uk/bailey-pegasus-...


This means that over 2/3rds the length of that caravan hasn't even entered the lane yet and it just in't going to fit with the CRV's current trajectory.
The snapshot above is the point where you can be certain that that vehicle is coming over ready or not.

If the trucker had Emergency stopped at this point then in my mind that would put the CRV solely at fault anyway as that's a complete fail on a driving test. Causing another road user to change speed/direction which would be a serious fail. Or just plain dangerous driving.
Even if the truck was stopped dead at this point in the clip(which it isn't) the CRV will cross over the solid white line which is illegal in itself and should carry a 3 point penalty. Up to this point in the clip the trucker hasn't actually done anything wrong.