HGV vs caravan smash on the M6

[saaby93]

Mandalore said:

Mave said:

Mandalore said:

Its sarcasm (obviously),

But its indicative of what some people on here (90% apparently) feel is acceptable behaviour. Even through it is clearly irresponsible.

What I find most astonishing (and scary), is that some the people who support that irresponsible view.

No. 90% of people didn't say it was ok to barge in. 90% of people said it wasn't ok to drive into someone in response to them barging in.

That IS part of the point I attempting to make.

90% (actually more like 95%) said we would not crash if somebody barged in.

Yet, the morality of whether somebody should barge in in the first place, has taken a complete back seat in the statistical analysis as that moral question is not reflected adequately in the poll.

You're both wrong about the barging

I purposefully tried to make sure the poll was irrespective of whatever reason the caravan ended up there, it could have been due to a mistake, it could have been deliberate, anything. We dont know.

All I asked was if youre in the position of the truck with the car/caravan merging, what would you do

I feel disappointed about the approx 5% crash, but we know it happens otherwise we wouldnt have this thread, or the poll.

Edited by saaby93 on Friday 24th April 17:27

[saaby93]

Mr GrimNasty said:

The Caravan Driver has clearly spent too much time reading Piston Heads merge in turn threads.

I wondered if someone would make that link

[LocoCoco]

Mave said:

LocoCoco said:

I know the accident was 100% my fault, the logic on here doesn't match that though.

That's because you're trying to make it black and white, rather than considering reasonable expectations. It is reasonable to expect a lorry driver not to react to a slowly developing situation by accelerating into it, especially when the safe option is obvious and easy to take. It is not reasonable to expect someone surprised by someone suddenly appearing out of control in their mirror to be able to do much more than hang on and hope. Seeing unusual things "unfold" can happen much quicker than you can effectively react to.

I agree with your point but thought I'd countered it with my driveway analysis
Maybe I should have concentrated my argument on the oncoming car, had they noticed what was happening in front of them, they could have moved over a foot which would have been enough of a gap for me to squeeze through, they didn't seem to alter course at all though.

[GEARJAMMER]

Funny bit about all this is I bet when the police turned up they didn't even need to watch the video to see what happened.

[Vipers]

Let me see now I said about 50 pages.

Not grey but black and white.

[GC8]

Why didn't the HGV driver use his horn?

[KTF]

GC8 said:

Why didn't the HGV driver use his horn?

Because he had decided not to yield and see what happened next.

[GC8]

The lack of horn makes him culpable, in my opinion (unusually for PH, backed up with an HGV licence).

[jmorgan]

GEARJAMMER said:

Funny bit about all this is I bet when the police turned up they didn't even need to watch the video to see what happened.

Vid was last year so I assume there is an outcome in all of this. Probably not reported though.

[saaby93]

GC8 said:

The lack of horn makes him culpable,

Only the lack of a horn

During the whole sequence they're both fully culpable
Maybe we need a master class on the highway code but isnt PH about protecting our P&J not joining a giant game of dodgems?

Some snippets from the code
'Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident' - when did either do that?
'The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance'
'be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake'
'try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well'
'do not allow yourself to become agitated or involved if someone is behaving badly on the road. This will only make the situation worse. Pull over, calm down and, when you feel relaxed, continue your journey'
'slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them'

That's before common sense like if someone has their indicator on, which side do you not go?

Total failure on all counts
Either one could have avoided the collision and should have done, Both chose not to.
How many other people were held up that day for something entirely preventable?

Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 25th April 09:35

[GC8]

Im glad that I am not like you. Thank you for cheering me up this morning.

[saaby93]

GC8 said:

Im glad that I am not like you. Thank you for cheering me up this morning.

Glad to be of service

Here's my day posted earlier

saaby93 said:

Isnt this what PH is about >>>

I was out in my P&J top down (no flat cap) taking the long M5 slip off the M6 when a car and caravan inch past.
The guy must have noticed the over gantry wasnt what he waas expecting as he flicks on his left indicator and positions as if he needs to take the slip too.
I drop back a bit, he slips across and we're off south down the M5
It was so uneventful I'm surprised I remember it.

I pass him a bit later on and he gives me a cheery wave

Is that about as exciting as it gets?

I guess gratuitous self swearing, grinding metal perhaps the bonus use of the horn and months subsequently sorting paperwork, might have its attractions

Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 25th April 10:48

[stuartmmcfc]

jmorgan said:

GEARJAMMER said:

Funny bit about all this is I bet when the police turned up they didn't even need to watch the video to see what happened.

Vid was last year so I assume there is an outcome in all of this. Probably not reported though.

]
After 30 pages I've lost concentration a bit, but if you're referring to the vid in the OP, it was only last week. The driver was clearly listening to the City vs West Ham match..
Apologies if you're not.

[Lordglenmorangie]

Come On lads, 30 pages is enough on this post. He was towing a caravan and wearing a pink rugby shirt he was asking for it

[heebeegeetee]

saaby93 said:

You're both wrong about the barging

I purposefully tried to make sure the poll was irrespective of whatever reason the caravan ended up there, it could have been due to a mistake, it could have been deliberate, anything. We dont know.

All I asked was if youre in the position of the truck with the car/caravan merging, what would you do

I feel disappointed about the approx 5% crash, but we know it happens otherwise we wouldnt have this thread, or the poll.

Edited by saaby93 on Friday 24th April 17:27

The problem with your poll imo is that you are addressing the question to people who might never be in the position of the trucker.

As I've said on many threads before, the position of an hgv driver and of a car driver is completely and totally different, an the way you are treated by other road users is *completely* different, and simply no comparison can be made between their respective experiences imo.

I used to truck up and down the m'ways in that region, I did so on one particular contract just before giving up on trucking some 6 years ago or so. I would do a a round trip from Castle Bromwich to Rubery in the daytime using the M6 and M5 and junction of the two.

The way other drivers would behave at every single junction, at each slip road on and off, was so bad that I took to moving into lane 2 before each junction just so that I can maintain my own safety and speed. The dive-bombing off, the robbing of forward space, the pushing in in front when all space has already been lost (and there is nothing behind me), then the forcing on to the m'way instead of merging, and, rather like the caravanner, the absolute insistence in having the tarmac that you're already occupying, seriously I say to you guys, until you've seen and experienced for a period of time yourselves, you have no idea what it's like or how you'd behave.

Now, the trucker in the video might not have been pushed around all day and all week, or he might have been. Indeed he might not even be an hgv driver and in fact his vehicle seems to have a bit of room to move within his lane so might not even be more than a van, I don't know.

I just know that the numerous pages on two threads and the poll are all populated by people who drive cars, and thus have opinions that really don't matter or count in this regard imo.

I'm not in any way defending the trucker, for all I know he might be a total ahole who relishes in causing trouble, I don't know, but I do know that I can understand someone who just every once in a blue moon, gets absolutely titssed right off with being pushed around as though he doesn't count for anything.

[Vipers]

Lordglenmorangie said:

Come On lads, 30 pages is enough on this post. He was towing a caravan and wearing a pink rugby shirt he was asking for it

As I said earlier, at least 50 pages,.............

[bobtail4x4]

out of interest, I had a look on a couple of caravan forums, they take it as 50/50 too.

I expected the truck driver to be demonised,

[Vipers]

bobtail4x4 said:

I had a look on a couple of caravan forums

Wash your mouth out with soap

[jmorgan]

stuartmmcfc said:

jmorgan said:

GEARJAMMER said:

Funny bit about all this is I bet when the police turned up they didn't even need to watch the video to see what happened.

Vid was last year so I assume there is an outcome in all of this. Probably not reported though.

]
After 30 pages I've lost concentration a bit, but if you're referring to the vid in the OP, it was only last week. The driver was clearly listening to the City vs West Ham match..
Apologies if you're not.

Oh, I thought I saw 2014 in the time slot. Apologies from me should be. Should take not of those letters saying I need another eye test.


Edit. Iand football, well, I manage to blank out anything to do with that.......

[GC8]

heebeegeetee said:

The problem with your poll imo is that you are addressing the question to people who might never be in the position of the trucker.

As I've said on many threads before, the position of an hgv driver and of a car driver is completely and totally different, an the way you are treated by other road users is *completely* different, and simply no comparison can be made between their respective experiences imo.

I used to truck up and down the m'ways in that region, I did so on one particular contract just before giving up on trucking some 6 years ago or so. I would do a a round trip from Castle Bromwich to Rubery in the daytime using the M6 and M5 and junction of the two.

The way other drivers would behave at every single junction, at each slip road on and off, was so bad that I took to moving into lane 2 before each junction just so that I can maintain my own safety and speed. The dive-bombing off, the robbing of forward space, the pushing in in front when all space has already been lost (and there is nothing behind me), then the forcing on to the m'way instead of merging, and, rather like the caravanner, the absolute insistence in having the tarmac that you're already occupying, seriously I say to you guys, until you've seen and experienced for a period of time yourselves, you have no idea what it's like or how you'd behave.

Now, the trucker in the video might not have been pushed around all day and all week, or he might have been. Indeed he might not even be an hgv driver and in fact his vehicle seems to have a bit of room to move within his lane so might not even be more than a van, I don't know.

I just know that the numerous pages on two threads and the poll are all populated by people who drive cars, and thus have opinions that really don't matter or count in this regard imo.

I'm not in any way defending the trucker, for all I know he might be a total ahole who relishes in causing trouble, I don't know, but I do know that I can understand someone who just every once in a blue moon, gets absolutely titssed right off with being pushed around as though he doesn't count for anything.

I don't disagree with anything written here. It will fall on car-only drivers deaf ears, though.