TS GTV Engine belt arrangement

[Count Vampirski]

could someone please confirm that there are 3 belts:
Cambelt
Balance belt: balance shaft
Aux belt: alternator p steering & aircon pump

and that the variator, oil pump, water pump etc ar directly mechanically driven, not via belts

and that they are all replaceable via the o/s wheel arch

I suspect my gradually seizing alternator has part shredded the aux belt (flapping sound, following long period of alt bearing squeal)- to get me mobile, anyone know of a shorter belt (std V?) that would fit without alternator - eg a non aircon belt fitted to drive aircon and p steer only?

[arguti]

Does this help?

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_cam_belt_change...

[Count Vampirski]

v helpful thanks - shame the overall pic of all belts is a dud - I dont think I have to do half what is listed just for aux belt - i imagine rocker covers etc stay in place and that belt end cover is free to come off separately - didnt realise inner arch liner had to come off - havent looked to see how feasible that is for an amateur

[Count Vampirski]

is the arch liner obvious and easy to remove?

[waynedear]

Count Vampirski said:

is the arch liner obvious and easy to remove?

Yup, it sure is, jack up the car (having first cracked the wheel nuts) axle stand under the thick end of the arm, wheel off, I think there are 3 screws holding the arch liner on.

[Count Vampirski]

is the jackin up just access convenience? - prob borrow trolley jack which other car is sittin on to get Alfie a few more inches off ground at that corner
do you know of a short belt i can use to exclude damaged alternator (and a/c) to get car mobile again (Ie drive remaining power steering)

[Count Vampirski]

finally had chance to take a look at belts (moving flapping sound following semi seized alternator bearing for several weeks) - Aux belt, though showing ag cracking a cross width seems in good nick, it has tension and when depressed, the tensioner allows an inch or so of movement so it certainly doesnt seem to have come off or even broken up

Inspecting cambelt from top over cam pulleys, again seems ok and certainly has tension

The inner wheelarch lower belt cover plate is missing (fits to inner wing directly below brake pipe mount) allowing open view of bottom pulley and tensioners

This presumably leaves the balance shaft belt - how best to examine this and full length of cambelt?

Cant think what else can make this degenerative lose slapping noise (no lights) - fortunately happened less than 3 miles from home - returned at minimal revs and throttle and thrashing may have become slightly worse but not alarmingly loud, only moderately light - I would say, coincidence or not it lost power / running poorly (I was at idle in third) - seem to recall when i dipped clutch to change down engine ran freely at idle, so hoping if any belt damage, cambelt not jumped)

dare not start or even turn it til get a good look at cambelt run and any evidence of debris

Need a little more hand-holding to get full access to these areas please

[Count Vampirski]

...still confused..having looked at a photo of a TS GTV belt set-up, it appears to have only 2 belts? - Cambelt driving balance shaft?

It is just that at first glance from top and bottom, the Cambelt and aux belt look ok and are under normal tension - so is there definitely a third hidden belt driving just the balance shaft - seems odd?

[kev b]

I had one of these in my workshop, the balance shaft belt had broken and whilst thrashing around inside the cover it dislodged the cambelt, damaging all the valves and squashing the big end shells, I hope this is not what you are hearing, perhaps a check would be wise.



Remember it's an Italian car so very probably has more than one issue going on simultaneously

Have a close look at the suspension whilst under the wing, there will probably be something amiss there as well!

[Count Vampirski]

Yes, old car and under financed for maintenance so many things could / should be attended to..

Still would appreciate definitive knowledge on belt layout, particularly if there is a trick with fitting an aux belt replacement that excludes alternator on a TS with aircon (which can also be excluded) - ie need short tooth belt to drive p steering? - Still assuming there is an elusive third belt driving only balance shaft? - Dont know how long car would drive between charges but at least should get me mobile without further damage to alternator bearing

[kev b]

In the time it would take to research, source, purchase and fit a shorter belt, should one even be available, you could remove the alternator, swap the bearings and refit it or fit a used one from a breakers.

[Count Vampirski]

kev - I have been told it is a lengthy job, whilst an ebay alternator maybe only £60-80, everyone says it takes over 3 hrs to do - so £200+ total bill - which at the mo I dont really need

[kev b]

If you are set on doing this then you need to find out the size of belt you need.

No one will have this info so you will need to measure the length needed using a piece of string, allowing for the movement of the tensioner, the width of course will be the same as your fitted belt.

Assuming a route for the belt can be found that will prevent slippage and also turn the pulleys in the correct direction then looking through a belt catalogue, eg Gates, should turn up a suitable item.

[gazza82]

Count Vampirski said:

kev - I have been told it is a lengthy job, whilst an ebay alternator maybe only £60-80, everyone says it takes over 3 hrs to do - so £200+ total bill - which at the mo I dont really need

Well it's not in the most convenient place ...

So you planning to use the car without an alternator? Battery will last five minutes ... and don't forget this is a modern car and with no electrics 90% of it won't work.

I've just replaced the cam belt, balance belt, water pump and cam sensor on my TS (201,000 miles!!!) ... overall it took about 7 hours as I'd not done it myself before.

Cam belt is furthest back and drives inlet and exhaust cams and waterpump (back of belt flat against pump drive). It has an idler and tensioner and then runs around the crank.

In front of that is the balance belt. Drives two balance shafts and has a tensioner behind the oil filter/engine mount so a pain to get to the nut. That also runs around the crank on the outer gear. The one has teeth on both side as one balance shaft is driven on the inside and the other from the outside so they rotate in opposite directions.

Both of these should be hidden but the timing belt cover (two pieces).

The aux belt has several channels (think mine is 7). Runs around the crank, tensioner, alternator, power steering and a/c compressor then idler (which is a PITA to remove!) . Tensioner is best accessed from below with a long offset neck ring spanner or a 15mm socket and shortish breaker bar (I used a cut down socket and 15" breaker).

This isn't my engine .. far too clean ... but it may help!

Edited by gazza82 on Friday 15th May 09:29

Edited by gazza82 on Friday 15th May 09:36

[Count Vampirski]

Cheers Gazza for the effort there, most helpful.

Presumably the Balance belt can be cut and withdrawn without stripping everything down (it appears to be this that is flapping around (you can easily press it down) whereas main belts look reasonable and are taught.

Q: What is effect of balance shafts being parked up in random position? - Is it practical to drive without these, if so is the degradation harmful or severe?

Reason I ask is that, even I should be able to reach in from top, cut and extract ( if it leaves debris, ie doesnt come out complete) it will have to be towed in, however if it comes out ok, can I resume driving 'as normal' - been stranded on a farm for weeks in fear of starting it!