tyre wear.

[Tim85]

Thought I'd make a topic about this rather than just plonk it in the track day thread as it might help some people.

Can anyone describe the difference between hot and cold tear.

And can someone tell me which mine is suffering from so I can adjust my pressures accordingly.
The wear looks quite well spread which I'm guessing means the suspension is set up ok but following the pictures in the link it does look like it's got some either hot or cold tear. I set my pressures very roughly so they could of been either higher or Lower than Recommended.



This is the guide I've been checking against.

http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-g...

[bass gt3]

Tim85 said:

Thought I'd make a topic about this rather than just plonk it in the track day thread as it might help some people.

Can anyone describe the difference between hot and cold tear.

And can someone tell me which mine is suffering from so I can adjust my pressures accordingly.
The wear looks quite well spread which I'm guessing means the suspension is set up ok but following the pictures in the link it does look like it's got some either hot or cold tear. I set my pressures very roughly so they could of been either higher or Lower than Recommended.



This is the guide I've been checking against.

http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-g...

A better picture would help but your rebound looks a tad slow

Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 24th April 22:33

[Tim85]

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

[bass gt3]

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

[moanthebairns]

bass gt3 said:

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

what do you mean by that? cleaning?

is that when you get wee balls at the edge of the tyre?

[bass gt3]

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

what do you mean by that? cleaning?

is that when you get wee balls at the edge of the tyre?

yes

[moanthebairns]

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

what do you mean by that? cleaning?

is that when you get wee balls at the edge of the tyre?

yes

Ahhhhh

I wondered and forgot to ask why I kept getting these at Anglesey

They made my teeth itch.

[bass gt3]

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

what do you mean by that? cleaning?

is that when you get wee balls at the edge of the tyre?

yes

Ahhhhh

I wondered and forgot to ask why I kept getting these at Anglesey

They made my teeth itch.

As long as you're not getting any tears as shown in the guide, those little balls are a good thing

[Tim85]

bass gt3 said:

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

ah thats cool, so that means ive got plenty more lean angle?
whats the difference in hot and cold tear then and why is it bad out of intrest. will it just wear the tyre quicker and is it as it sounds the tyres either got too or not enough pressure in it so its movinf around too much and ripping up to a small degree?

[bass gt3]

Tim85 said:

bass gt3 said:

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

ah thats cool, so that means ive got plenty more lean angle?
whats the difference in hot and cold tear then and why is it bad out of intrest. will it just wear the tyre quicker and is it as it sounds the tyres either got too or not enough pressure in it so its movinf around too much and ripping up to a small degree?

Looking at that tyre, it's ok, maybe a smidge more pressure could be tried. But you don't say whether that was from 1 day or several, what pressure you were running, track temp etc. Lots of variables .
If you look at the tyre, you can se the wear trench forming where the sipes are thinnest. If you look along the tyre you'll see it flattening off there as that's where you're driving hardest hence wearing the tyre. Looking at the first pic it seems there's a few mm yet to go before you're on the shoulder, so keep leaning

[moanthebairns]

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

Tim85 said:

That's from another angle but the light was so bright it kind of hid it.

Looks fine. you could be going further over on the shoulder but the tyre looks ok
Because you're not getting over to the shoulder, the tyre isn't cleaning itself too well.

what do you mean by that? cleaning?

is that when you get wee balls at the edge of the tyre?

yes

Ahhhhh

I wondered and forgot to ask why I kept getting these at Anglesey

They made my teeth itch.

As long as you're not getting any tears as shown in the guide, those little balls are a good thing

Cool. It's amazing how they make a perfect ball the size of malteaser at even points along the side of the tyre.

Quick question while I'm here.

For say 4 degrees what's a good pressure for super corsa's?

And then at 10 Degrees then 20.

whilst on warmers.

And also does anyone know where I can get new ties for my warmers. I was thinking like a bungee cord. The staNdard ones are a bit pants.

[bass gt3]

moanthebairns said:

Cool. It's amazing how they make a perfect ball the size of malteaser at even points along the side of the tyre.

Quick question while I'm here.

For say 4 degrees what's a good pressure for super corsa's?

And then at 10 Degrees then 20.

whilst on warmers.

And also does anyone know where I can get new ties for my warmers. I was thinking like a bungee cord. The staNdard ones are a bit pants.

For such a cold day/track, the hardest part will be keeping the heat in the tyres. Pressures off the warmers should be the same as you always run but don't fanny about for 2 laps letting the tyres cool down. Go out and get on it from the off. Otherwise your tyres will cool down massively and when you start pushing you could be on your arse.

[moanthebairns]

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

Cool. It's amazing how they make a perfect ball the size of malteaser at even points along the side of the tyre.

Quick question while I'm here.

For say 4 degrees what's a good pressure for super corsa's?

And then at 10 Degrees then 20.

whilst on warmers.

And also does anyone know where I can get new ties for my warmers. I was thinking like a bungee cord. The staNdard ones are a bit pants.

For such a cold day/track, the hardest part will be keeping the heat in the tyres. Pressures off the warmers should be the same as you always run but don't fanny about for 2 laps letting the tyres cool down. Go out and get on it from the off. Otherwise your tyres will cool down massively and when you start pushing you could be on your arse.

It's the bloody sighting laps.

What's the point. We had theM tip toeing about at croft. Soon as the instructor when in a guy crashed due to cold tyres.

Why don't they just send you out and be done.

One thing I've noticed with no limits is the waiting time you have in the pits before you go out. Even if you wait till the last second They always want to see your band ever seession.

[bass gt3]

moanthebairns said:

bass gt3 said:

moanthebairns said:

Cool. It's amazing how they make a perfect ball the size of malteaser at even points along the side of the tyre.

Quick question while I'm here.

For say 4 degrees what's a good pressure for super corsa's?

And then at 10 Degrees then 20.

whilst on warmers.

And also does anyone know where I can get new ties for my warmers. I was thinking like a bungee cord. The staNdard ones are a bit pants.

For such a cold day/track, the hardest part will be keeping the heat in the tyres. Pressures off the warmers should be the same as you always run but don't fanny about for 2 laps letting the tyres cool down. Go out and get on it from the off. Otherwise your tyres will cool down massively and when you start pushing you could be on your arse.

It's the bloody sighting laps.

What's the point. We had theM tip toeing about at croft. Soon as the instructor when in a guy crashed due to cold tyres.

Why don't they just send you out and be done.

One thing I've noticed with no limits is the waiting time you have in the pits before you go out. Even if you wait till the last second They always want to see your band ever seession.

As long as you've given the tyres a good hour in the warmers they won't cool off in 2 minutes. Feel that the wheel itself is warm and you'll know the whole tyre carcass as heated up. On the siting laps, use the acceleration and braking to keep them warm then once the instructor pulls in, start getting the tyre on its side as soon as possible. Don't load it with too much throttle, but just rolling through will heat them up.
People falling off from cold tyres is more to do with not letting them warm up properly in the first place. Remember: Feel the Wheel

[Tim85]

bass gt3 said:

Looking at that tyre, it's ok, maybe a smidge more pressure could be tried. But you don't say whether that was from 1 day or several, what pressure you were running, track temp etc. Lots of variables .
If you look at the tyre, you can se the wear trench forming where the sipes are thinnest. If you look along the tyre you'll see it flattening off there as that's where you're driving hardest hence wearing the tyre. Looking at the first pic it seems there's a few mm yet to go before you're on the shoulder, so keep leaning

cheers. interesting. You really are like the guru of all things motorbike related. I knew ive got loads of lean/life/grip in the tyres left, convincing my brain to do anything about that is the hard part. But this was more to make sure my tyres werent wearing weird or badly. I want the most life out of them as i can get as im a tight yorkshireman!

[bass gt3]

Tim85 said:

bass gt3 said:

Looking at that tyre, it's ok, maybe a smidge more pressure could be tried. But you don't say whether that was from 1 day or several, what pressure you were running, track temp etc. Lots of variables .
If you look at the tyre, you can se the wear trench forming where the sipes are thinnest. If you look along the tyre you'll see it flattening off there as that's where you're driving hardest hence wearing the tyre. Looking at the first pic it seems there's a few mm yet to go before you're on the shoulder, so keep leaning

cheers. interesting. You really are like the guru of all things motorbike related. I knew ive got loads of lean/life/grip in the tyres left, convincing my brain to do anything about that is the hard part. But this was more to make sure my tyres werent wearing weird or badly. I want the most life out of them as i can get as im a tight yorkshireman!

Hahah, thanks but not sure about that moniker
As for more lean, it'll come. Relax, look where your going and add a bit of speed. The faster you go, the more you'll lean.

[moanthebairns]

I second that you've been great on here.

[theshrew]

moanthebairns said:

It's the bloody sighting laps.

What's the point. We had theM tip toeing about at croft. Soon as the instructor when in a guy crashed due to cold tyres.

Why don't they just send you out and be done.

One thing I've noticed with no limits is the waiting time you have in the pits before you go out. Even if you wait till the last second They always want to see your band ever seession.

The track days ive been to not that ive ridden one that was my thoughts also. As Bass says the tyres wont cool loads In that time. If the wheel is hot that helps to keep heat in the tyre.

The tyre temp makes a big difference. When I raced RC cars I used to use a heat gun to measure the track temp and tyre temp when you finish a run. You can play about with how long you put the warmers on for, or if you can adjust the temp settings on the warmers, or even to use a different compound tyre. You wont want them on for the same time at 9am as you will at 2pm.

Experiment slightly and make a note of what you do. After a bit of experimenting you will end up with a more consistent feeling run. Not as critical with bikes as the tyres wont overheat the same but its still not a bad thing to try. Its far better going out knowing what to expect than doing it not having as much grip as you expect due to tyres being cold / tyres going off etc.

Just talking in general - Its worth keeping a log of what you do after each run on track anyway. What settings are on the bike, conditions, how the bike felt what differences changes made etc. Remember one thing will be ace at one track and feel rubbish at another.

If your struggling you can always go back to what you know works or at least how it works.

You will learn shed loads by doing that.

[legzr1]

moanthebairns said:

It's the bloody sighting laps.

What's the point. We had theM tip toeing about at croft. Soon as the instructor when in a guy crashed due to cold tyres.

Why don't they just send you out and be done.

One thing I've noticed with no limits is the waiting time you have in the pits before you go out. Even if you wait till the last second They always want to see your band ever seession.

Not everyone on track will be using warmers - most in novice and possibly inters will have ridden there on road legal (non slick) tyres.

The sighting laps allow these cold tyres to warm gradually - There are normally less issues letting stone cold road tyres warm compared to fully up-to-temp race tyres losing a little.

All bets are off when its first session out and some poor buggers running slicks had been 'off warmers' for getting on for 10 mins then had three sighting laps and a cold, wet track to navigate!

[Biker's Nemesis]

I check mine in the morning after an hour or so after being in the Warner's then straight away as soon as I come in after a session

My pressures using Dunlop slicks are 32 front and 22 rear

Cold tear usually happens in the mornings when the track temp is cold

This system works for me