Titan Roller Barrel vs Jenveys
Discussion
Im looking into intake options for my new 1800 k build and trying to work out best option between Titan Roller Barrel and Direct To Head Jenveys. my engine builder said power would be near enough identical, only reason he normally uses one over another is cost and budget customers have, i like the idea of Roller Barrel as that is what Caterham used on the R models but just wondering if anyone has any feed back.
Edited by texr2000 on Saturday 25th April 12:52
Lot to discuss about Roller Barrels v Throttle Bodies. Talking about Duratec here, but I've gone from barrels to throttle bodies and back again, and my choice would be the barrels.
That's not to say the throttle bodies are bad, but just that the roller barrels did a better job at delivering what I wanted. That is more full throttle power, better packaging, and good engineering. But these things are complex and, as I found out, are often about how things work together rather than the sum of the parts.
Here's a back to back. But please be aware this was for one car with a bespoke exhaust, so may not represent the full potential of the throttle bodies.
That's not to say the throttle bodies are bad, but just that the roller barrels did a better job at delivering what I wanted. That is more full throttle power, better packaging, and good engineering. But these things are complex and, as I found out, are often about how things work together rather than the sum of the parts.
Here's a back to back. But please be aware this was for one car with a bespoke exhaust, so may not represent the full potential of the throttle bodies.
Great info DCL thanks for sharing. I too am going through the dilemma of Roller versus Jenvy style. May I ask, are the SBD ones you tried their own 'tapered' design or something else? Also the roller barrels you say are Cosworth ones. Are these the same as Caterham fit to their cars or do they use something else?
One other thing that comes up a fair it is driveability at part throttle being worse with roller barrels compared with Jenvy style barrels. As a man who's tried both, what's your take on it?
Tom
One other thing that comes up a fair it is driveability at part throttle being worse with roller barrels compared with Jenvy style barrels. As a man who's tried both, what's your take on it?
Tom
The barrels are branded as Caterham but are basically the Cosworth/Titan item, the SBD were the large taper type.
It is fair to say the throttle bodies do behave better at lower throttle openings, but it is marginal and not enough to sway me on a track car. On a road car that may be more significant. On the SBD bodies, the injector position is underneath and near to the butterfly. They are also as far up the induction path as is possible - a fair length from the valves. This may produce optimum power, but it does somewhat remove the crisp response of the Cosworth setup (using the Ford injector location) and negate the argument on throttle response. I suspect the Jenveys may be better in that respect. It is also worth mentioning that the SBD bodies require a return fuel line and fuel regulator. The Cosworth uses the standard Ford fuel rail and pump, which seems to have plenty of capacity.
It is fair to say the throttle bodies do behave better at lower throttle openings, but it is marginal and not enough to sway me on a track car. On a road car that may be more significant. On the SBD bodies, the injector position is underneath and near to the butterfly. They are also as far up the induction path as is possible - a fair length from the valves. This may produce optimum power, but it does somewhat remove the crisp response of the Cosworth setup (using the Ford injector location) and negate the argument on throttle response. I suspect the Jenveys may be better in that respect. It is also worth mentioning that the SBD bodies require a return fuel line and fuel regulator. The Cosworth uses the standard Ford fuel rail and pump, which seems to have plenty of capacity.
I do like the idea of the roller barrels and i think the fact it was used by caterham makes the engine bay look more original.
Im not so worried about out and out power, more drive-ability and good power and tourque through out the rev range.
I read stories of getting stuck open at full throttle on track days but these were elise and im not sure if they used the same ones as caterham
Im not so worried about out and out power, more drive-ability and good power and tourque through out the rev range.
I read stories of getting stuck open at full throttle on track days but these were elise and im not sure if they used the same ones as caterham
Texr, some more info along the lines of your question can be found here on the L7C forum posted recently:
http://www.lotus7.club/forum/titan-roller-barrels-...
http://www.lotus7.club/forum/titan-roller-barrels-...
texr2000 said:
I read stories of getting stuck open at full throttle on track days but these were elise and im not sure if they used the same ones as caterham
I had an R500 that had roller barrels that stuck at very small throttle openings occasionally - so you'd be doing 25mph in 2nd gear, and press the throttle and nothing happened. Press a bit harder and you'd either shoot down the road or bunnyhop.... I believe the owner after me had them rebuilt.I have the Caterham (Titan) roller barrel throttle bodies on my R400 (and spent a long time deciding whether to go RB or butterfly when I converted from standard) and have to say I don't see any issue with part throttle openings. Would a set of butterflies be smoother and "better"? Sure, but then a fly-by-wire throttle and respective engine management system would be even "better" again, but that's just not the point of a Caterham.
If you're using your car purely for touring, then it may make some sense, but if you're using it for blats and trackdays, I think RBTBs is the way to go.
If you're using your car purely for touring, then it may make some sense, but if you're using it for blats and trackdays, I think RBTBs is the way to go.
I think i am being swayed to RB's party as was Caterhams choice and they are a nice bit of kit. DTH are around 1/2 the price of the RB's that is the only temptation. Im sure once my Engine is finished if i had a Dyno graph of both and got to drive the car on both then i will properly not even notice where all the extra money went, buts still fancy the RB's haha
I had Jenvey's, the R500 I tried with roller barrels was much harder work on part throttle. If it's a race car then rollers all the way but if throttle progression and driveability is higher on your list than WOT a DTH in my opinion is a better bet. AT power have a spindleless design which is supposed to give the benefits of both, not cheap though.
I may be wrong here, but aren't all the options you're talking about DTH? The difference is between a butterfly, and a roller barrel.
Yonex, is that comparing a butterfly R500 to a RB R500? As otherwise you're probably just noticing that the higher power R500 on more aggresive cams is less progressive on the throttle.
Yonex, is that comparing a butterfly R500 to a RB R500? As otherwise you're probably just noticing that the higher power R500 on more aggresive cams is less progressive on the throttle.
hufggfg said:
I may be wrong here, but aren't all the options you're talking about DTH? The difference is between a butterfly, and a roller barrel.
Yonex, is that comparing a butterfly R500 to a RB R500? As otherwise you're probably just noticing that the higher power R500 on more aggresive cams is less progressive on the throttle.
The R500 was a standard K, mine was a big valved VHPD with heavy porting etc. I experimented with 1444 and 2180's . I would say my car on rollers would have been worse unless on a track. Power wise ivery similar but the modified engine was much more linear. With DTH I always associate them with Jenveys..but yes. Yonex, is that comparing a butterfly R500 to a RB R500? As otherwise you're probably just noticing that the higher power R500 on more aggresive cams is less progressive on the throttle.
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