Any converts from Manual to pdk here?

Any converts from Manual to pdk here?

Author
Discussion

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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If you don't personally think driving an auto loses any sense of fun in driving then PDK is good. Otherwise especially given the choice it's a no brainer to go for a manual IMO as they are just more interesting cars to drive generally.

jackal

11,248 posts

281 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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MJ911 said:
As per the title, interested to hear if any die-hard manual shift drivers have converted to pdk and actually enjoy it as much as or more than a manual old school shift, which to me has always been part of the fast-motoring experience.
I am on the hunt for an 'R' but the better spec or colours tend to be on the PDK versions and read some previous comments about the PDK being quicker anyway.
I know I really need to try one myself but they always tend to be 100+ miles away.

Your thoughts?...
Not pdk but i loved the shift in my f10 M5 (arguably better than pdk). Im a diehard manual boffin so never thought id say this but cant want to own more cars with a dct that good. Not as involving but strangely just as delightful.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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jackal said:
Not pdk but i loved the shift in my f10 M5 (arguably better than pdk). Im a diehard manual boffin so never thought id say this but cant want to own more cars with a dct that good. Not as involving but strangely just as delightful.
PDK, DSG, DCT, S-Tronic, surely all dual clutch and thus intrinsically all the same ?
After three years and 30k miles with the SMG 'box in the CSL, I admit I'm an early flappy paddle convert, but I find all the modern dual clutch 'boxes interminably dull, they're just too accomplished, so much so they may as well be left in full auto mode, whereas finessing the older SMG and S-Tronic 'boxes makes them more engaging and thus fun to use.

dreamcar

1,067 posts

110 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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Slippydiff said:
PDK, DSG, DCT, S-Tronic, surely all dual clutch and thus intrinsically all the same ?
After three years and 30k miles with the SMG 'box in the CSL, I admit I'm an early flappy paddle convert, but I find all the modern dual clutch 'boxes interminably dull, they're just too accomplished, so much so they may as well be left in full auto mode, whereas finessing the older SMG and S-Tronic 'boxes makes them more engaging and thus fun to use.
That's a bit like saying all cars are the same because they've got an engine and four wheels! The theory of how a double clutch 'box works (a Porsche invention by the way) is the same of course, but. going to extremes to illustrate the point a double clutch box in say a Ferrari and a Skoda are very different beasts, I'm not talking gear ratios but the software that controls the inner workings is unique to each manufacturer. I can tell you categorically that a double clutch box in say an Audi is massively inferior to that in a Porsche. Even with Porsche the PDK 'box in the latest 981 / 991 Porsche's are a significant improvement over 986 / 997 models, faster shifting, smoother and more intuitive than the previous generation cars!

SkinnyPete

1,411 posts

148 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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Slippydiff said:
PDK, DSG, DCT, S-Tronic, surely all dual clutch and thus intrinsically all the same ?
After three years and 30k miles with the SMG 'box in the CSL, I admit I'm an early flappy paddle convert, but I find all the modern dual clutch 'boxes interminably dull, they're just too accomplished, so much so they may as well be left in full auto mode, whereas finessing the older SMG and S-Tronic 'boxes makes them more engaging and thus fun to use.
I would take an SMG/single clutch flappy paddle any day over PDK, far move rewarding and entertaining.

E60 M5 gearbox oh my!!!

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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SkinnyPete said:
I would take an SMG/single clutch flappy paddle any day over PDK, far move rewarding and entertaining.
In what way?

nsm3

2,831 posts

195 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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I'm a happy convert, but I'm not daft enough to bother rationalising it in here.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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I don't think you have to be a convert to PDK from manual - to me that implies you'd never want a manual again in the future. However, I do think that for enjoyment and driving experience you shouldn't rule out a PDK.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
dreamcar said:
That's a bit like saying all cars are the same because they've got an engine and four wheels! The theory of how a double clutch 'box works (a Porsche invention by the way) is the same of course, but. going to extremes to illustrate the point a double clutch box in say a Ferrari and a Skoda are very different beasts, I'm not talking gear ratios but the software that controls the inner workings is unique to each manufacturer. I can tell you categorically that a double clutch box in say an Audi is massively inferior to that in a Porsche. Even with Porsche the PDK 'box in the latest 981 / 991 Porsche's are a significant improvement over 986 / 997 models, faster shifting, smoother and more intuitive than the previous generation cars!
Thanks for the superfluous PDK history lesson wink if I were standing in front of you' I'd call you a patronising tw*t, but as this is the slightly surreal world of the internet forum, I'll forgive/ignore the comment smile

As for all the other stuff : Potaatoes, potatoes, tomaatoes, tomatoes. The dual clutch concept removes any skill from the process of changing gear. Argue the semantics, don't argue the semantics, it's an incontrovertible fact irrespective of the lengths you want to go to disprove it.

dreamcar

1,067 posts

110 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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sidicks said:
However, I do think that for enjoyment and driving experience you shouldn't rule out a PDK.
...or rule out a manual! This debate will go on for ever. Each should go for what they themselves prefer without decrying the other, just because it isn't for them.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
nsm3 said:
I'm a happy convert, but I'm not daft enough to bother rationalising it in here.
I admire your brevity thumbup

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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dreamcar said:
sidicks said:
However, I do think that for enjoyment and driving experience you shouldn't rule out a PDK.
...or rule out a manual! This debate will go on for ever. Each should go for what they themselves prefer without decrying the other, just because it isn't for them.
I definitely agree. Just wanted to make it clear that (IMO) it doesn't mean, as some might suggest, that you have to have a manual if you love driving...



Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
sidicks said:
In what way?
Slippydiff said:
After three years and 30k miles with the SMG 'box in the CSL, I admit I'm an early flappy paddle convert, but I find all the modern dual clutch 'boxes interminably dull, they're just too accomplished, so much so they may as well be left in full auto mode, whereas finessing the older SMG and S-Tronic 'boxes makes them more engaging and thus fun to use.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
sidicks said:
In what way?
Slippydiff said:
After three years and 30k miles with the SMG 'box in the CSL, I admit I'm an early flappy paddle convert, but I find all the modern dual clutch 'boxes interminably dull, they're just too accomplished, so much so they may as well be left in full auto mode, whereas finessing the older SMG and S-Tronic 'boxes makes them more engaging and thus fun to use.
Fair enough - I tried the SMG in an M3 and hated it, so i bought a manual instead, but that was over 10 years ago.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 27th April 2015
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Personally, i think people should share their car usage before stating their opinion. Sure, a manual makes perfect sense if it is a weekend car, doing 6,000 miles a year on Welsh b-roads. However, using a clutch everyday isn't so much fun doing 30,000 miles a year in start/stop traffic in London. Doesn't mean you hate manuals or aren't an enthusiast because you choose PDK for 90% of your journeys!

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Fair enough - I tried the SMG in an M3 and hated it, so i bought a manual instead, but that was over 10 years ago.


Sept 2008. Used CSL delivered on a Tuesday lunchtime, Thursday morning saw it headed towards the Chunnel for a 12 day 4,000 mile Eurohoon. That's the way to "try an SMG" smile
Even a day spent trying the SMG isn't sufficient. It's a risky commitment, but you'd have to buy one and give it a month. I had a wobble on day two, but once I'd done the Col de Turini and Mount Ventoux, I NEVER looked back.EVER.
Just never drive an S_Tronic or SMG/SMG2 in auto mode, they're utterly hopeless.

mikefocke

20 posts

113 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
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I drove manual for most of 40 years. Alfa, BMW, VW, Datsun,914, etc. Then I borrowed my wife's slush-o-matic for two days to go to and from work in stop and go and mostly stop traffic and realized how much more relaxed I was on arriving home. I was a convert and both my Boxsters were TIPs.

Now I live in a place where 3 cars at a stoplight is a traffic jam. Much more conducive to a manual again.

She learned on a tractor in her fathers fields between hay bales. But ferrying kids to and fro in traffic got her started on autos and she has stayed there ever since.

My kids wouldn't know what a clutch was. Most don't. I've been in places where of a dozen people, I was the only one who knew how to drive a manual.

Horses for courses.

And if you disagree, that's OK too.


XGT

95 posts

128 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
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I still think it's down to individual driving skill/style.

Many don't want to put in the effort or learn how to drive a manual well and would rather think they are driving faster rather than feel they are driving well if that makes sense. And there's nothing wrong with that, just different folks have different ways of enjoying their driving experience.

I think everybody will have a definite and individual answer. And the problem is unless you really know how / want to learn how to drive a manual, and we are talking a small percentage I think, then it's easy to be converted to pdk as it is for those who choose a Porsche for a daily drive. For those that can really master a manual (or enjoy trying) then it's likely to be a deal breaker IMO.

P.s. Lucky enough to have a GT4 slot which I am very excited about, if it was pdk only then I would have given it up. The relevance here to OP is that I personally wouldn't consider a CR pdk.

koorby

175 posts

145 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
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As an expat Aussie now living in the UK these past three years, I am astonished just how Brits seem to be locked into a 1970's time warp when it comes to car transmission. In the USA, Canada, NZ and Australia almost every car sold is an automatic or DCT and manuals are usually special order. Kids learn to drive in automatics, rightly so, because they are much safer to drive by a massive margin and the old adage "what if they need to drive a manual?" is mostly irrelevant.

My British wife's 18yo son is learning to drive, in a manual (sigh!) of course, because that sadly is the norm here these days. The fact that he has almost zero driving aptitude, lives in a rural area where bikers use A-roads like F1 circuits, and struggles to do right-hand turns safely without either stalling or burning the clutch is largely ignored, because "he needs to learn to drive a manual". This completely false inherited belief is creating a nation of numpty incompetent drivers who are forever in the wrong gear, slow to get off the mark at lights and generally miserable in their manual city cars.

On top of that, the corrupt insurance industry here forces 18yo kids to buy clapped out decade-old 1.0 litre Corsas that have worn clutches and are accidents waiting to happen. Why not reward them for buying a modern, newer car with auto transmission and all the safety features that save lives?

So having driven manuals for the better part of 25 years then getting osteoarthritis in my left knee, my move to automatics/DCTs was very welcome and did not dilute the driving experience in any way whatsoever. In fact with PDK I can choose to be in whichever gear I want to be at any time, for as long as I want, and even rev to the limiter without intervention by electronics. If that's not control, what is? I can be in exactly the gear I choose when approaching a corner and exiting it.

So let the PH anoraks take the higher ground and preach their manual elitism, but the fact is that technology and the world has moved on and I am sure that those 10% of Porsche buyers who insist on a manual enjoy the experience, but don't let them deter you from enjoying a PDK.

Beanoir

1,327 posts

194 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
koorby said:
My British wife's 18yo son is learning to drive, in a manual (sigh!) of course, because that sadly is the norm here these days. The fact that he has almost zero driving aptitude, lives in a rural area where bikers use A-roads like F1 circuits, and struggles to do right-hand turns safely without either stalling or burning the clutch is largely ignored, because "he needs to learn to drive a manual". This completely false inherited belief is creating a nation of numpty incompetent drivers who are forever in the wrong gear, slow to get off the mark at lights and generally miserable in their manual city cars.

On top of that, the corrupt insurance industry here forces 18yo kids to buy clapped out decade-old 1.0 litre Corsas that have worn clutches and are accidents waiting to happen. Why not reward them for buying a modern, newer car with auto transmission and all the safety features that save lives?

So having driven manuals for the better part of 25 years then getting osteoarthritis in my left knee, my move to automatics/DCTs was very welcome and did not dilute the driving experience in any way whatsoever. In fact with PDK I can choose to be in whichever gear I want to be at any time, for as long as I want, and even rev to the limiter without intervention by electronics. If that's not control, what is? I can be in exactly the gear I choose when approaching a corner and exiting it.

So let the PH anoraks take the higher ground and preach their manual elitism, but the fact is that technology and the world has moved on and I am sure that those 10% of Porsche buyers who insist on a manual enjoy the experience, but don't let them deter you from enjoying a PDK.
Here in the UK we like driving manuals, we also offer the test in auto if thats preferred so he has a choice. Fact is even if he passes his test in a manual he can drive an auto whenever he likes, the other way around he's stuck with an auto and the kid is st out of luck if he ever wants to own some nice classics one day.

Some people can only afford a 1.0 Corsa manual car, thats perfectly fine for a learner driver IMO and was for the vast majority. The idea that kids should be driving around in new expensive cars is exactly one of the reasons why this country ended up in the financial state it's in now with people borrowing to achieve what they believe is 'normal' or keeping up with the Jones'.

I guess we could all revert to driving around in a clapped out Holden auto to save our knees...wow what a prospect.