disputed personal registration

[paullawrence240]

Hi, nice little one for us all to sort out here.....

My son recently sold his car to a nice young lady sold as seen, it included his personal registration number and it was agreed during the sale that the plate would be transferred back to him on retention. A nicely hand written receipt said 'sold as seen' and 'registration to be transferred back'. The nice young lady has since registered the car in her name and the personal reg is still on it. Since the sale a few things have needed repairing and the nice young lady has got herself an angry boyfriend, who has suggested amongst coming round to sort my son out, that the registration is not going to be returned either. So all, what's the best course of action, we want the reg back, have filled out the retention form for her to sign but she won't do it. How would you handle this?

thanks

[Butter Face]

He's screwed.

He should have taken it off before selling, it's her car now, it's her plate. If it's that important to get it, you need to come to some agreement (financially) or to fix the car to get them to agree to hand it back.

You live and you learn!

[Pet Troll]

I would expect the correct route would be small claims court, but that could be troublesome and take forever.

Personally I would sign the form yourself (your signature, don't forge hers) and mark it 'PP' to show you have signed on her behalf, nothing illegal in doing that although the DVLA may not accept it. Personally I think it must be worth a try before going down the small claims court route.

Also keep all correspondence from them as the 'threats' may prove useful in the future if you have to report them to the police.

[paullawrence240]

so the hand written note counts for nowt then, even though she signed it, does this address legal ownership of the plate?

[Pet Troll]

The Crack Fox said:

You haven't got a leg to stand on, sadly. Sorry.

Welcome to PH, by the way.

I disagree with that, you clearly had a contract with the buyer whereby the plate was not part of the sale, plus you say you have written proof (signed by the buyer?) stating this. That is more then enough to satisfy a contract in court.

[TooMany2cvs]

Your son sold his car with the reg on it. It's their reg now. There may have been an agreement to return it, but nothing legally binding.

They have no legal recourse over any issues, since your son's a genuine private seller and didn't mislead them (he didn't, did he?).

So, basically, he's relying on them to do the decent thing. And it doesn't sound like THAT's going to happen in a hurry...

Next time, plate off BEFORE sale.

[Butter Face]

paullawrence240 said:

so the hand written note counts for nowt then, even though she signed it, does this address legal ownership of the plate?

,
I would say not. You need proper legal advice, but as far as the DVLA are concerned it's now her car & her plate.

[randlemarcus]

Yes, but only if you actually go to law. At the moment, you are at the shouting stage, which is much cheaper. As said above, your options at this point are:

1. Suck it up, the plate is gone. Read the advice everywhere before doing anything this daft in future.
2. Fix the car if its cheaper than the value of the plate to you
3. Something quite close to forgery to get it back by doing the pp signature
4. Small claims court to get the Law to say "give it back you big nasty bully"

[Jim AK]

Would a PP work for the retention?

Surely if the car is registered in her name now the Retention Document would be sent to her as the R K.

[Butter Face]

Jim AK said:

Would a PP work for the retention?

Surely if the car is registered in her name now the Retention Document would be sent to her as the R K.

Correct.

If the V5 is in her name, she'll get the retention.

If by some stroke of genius the OP's son has not yet sent off the V5 (which is the sellers responsibility to do) then he could technically still just send off the retention and get the plate back.

Has the V5 been sent off in the new owners name OP??

[R8Steve]

Exact same thing happened to me (although the supposed hard man 'boyfriend' was the buyer in my case). My own fault, never got the plate back, you live and learn.

Edited by R8Steve on Wednesday 6th May 15:31

[UK345]

Goodbye private registration plate. It is the new owners now. Dvla always tell you not to sell car till it is transferred. She is well within her legal right to keep the plate. The boyfriend is just scaremongering he will be a big jessy like the majority of these people are.

[Roo]

A BF says.

How did she get the V5 in her name?

If, by any chance, your son still has the V5 start here:

https://www.gov.uk/keep-registration-number

[paullawrence240]

V5 gone and returned to DVLA already, so in here name, looks like it's game over

[R8Steve]

paullawrence240 said:

V5 gone and returned to DVLA already, so in here name, looks like it's game over

Have you not got any 'angry' friends that could help

[paullawrence240]

when you think it through, it's all a bit odd really, how do you legally enforce that you own something, if the signed note is worthless, then what was the point? Just because the process of selling a car takes the reg with it, why does that make it legal for her to own the plate, we bought the plate separately and have the receipt for this, we have the hand written note from her, so how come DVLA would ignore this because it's 'attached to a car'. Don't feel right to me! You should be able to evidence to DVLA that there is a dispute and that you own the plate. How do any of us go about proving we own something, normally a receipt, or say another form of legal document, otherwise we'd all be nicking each others stuff and saying it's mine, clear off or else!

[Superhoop]

I guess the question you need to answer is:

Is the value of the plate (sentimental or actual value) worth more to you/your son than the cost of the repairs to the car?

Legally you have no obligation to repair the car, or pay any associated costs, but by the same token, she has no obligation to hand back the registration - Could you not come to a compromise of paying something towards the repairs in exchange for the registration?

[gazchap]

That's the problem, from what I understand. You don't "own" the plate - it's still the "property" of DVLA. I'm pretty sure it says on the various bits of documentation etc. when getting a plate that it's not your property and that DVLA can withdraw your right to use the plate at any time etc.

Same thing happened to me in 2009. Swapped my Celica T-Sport for his GT-Four+some cash, with the agreement that he'd transfer my private plate back to my name. He never did.

As far as I know it's still on the car too.

[TooMany2cvs]

paullawrence240 said:

if the signed note is worthless, then what was the point?

A very good question.

paullawrence240 said:

How do any of us go about proving we own something, normally a receipt, or say another form of legal document, otherwise we'd all be nicking each others stuff and saying it's mine, clear off or else!

The ONLY tangible asset most of us own with any official proof of ownership is our house, via the Land Registry.
Our cars have a sort-of arm's length proof, via the V5C, which uses the registration as primary reference.

All it needs is for them to say "when we contacted him about the problems with the car, he apologised and said to keep the plate", and there's doubt cast straight on that receipt. Or, of course, they could easily claim that the sentence was added after their signature.

It's really very simple. If you want to keep the plate, take it off BEFORE SALE.

[paullawrence240]

not about the cash folks, sentimental, Dad buys son plate that matches his name for his 17th B'day, son sells car and cocks up! resent the idea of paying them off to get it back, 2x4 springs to mind! opps sorry no we're honest citizens!