Driving without due care or insurance
Discussion
My builders nephew got pulled over driving without insurance.
He just got the papers through that they're doing him for Driving without due care and attention, plus No insurance.
Both fair enough, and he'll be pleading guilty by post.
They're bulgarian so don't really understand the whole thing, so I'm just wondering what is to be expected. I believe he's 22 and has an english license which he exchanged for a bulgarian one when he arrived in the uk about 9 months ago.
The story is that he took the other guys keys after he'd had a skinful to stop him driving, then went out looking for him and got pulled... He saw the police car behind him, got very nervous, and wobbled which is when they pulled him over.
Just wondering what the situation is regards fines and points? He doesn't have much money at all and is looking for work.
He just got the papers through that they're doing him for Driving without due care and attention, plus No insurance.
Both fair enough, and he'll be pleading guilty by post.
They're bulgarian so don't really understand the whole thing, so I'm just wondering what is to be expected. I believe he's 22 and has an english license which he exchanged for a bulgarian one when he arrived in the uk about 9 months ago.
The story is that he took the other guys keys after he'd had a skinful to stop him driving, then went out looking for him and got pulled... He saw the police car behind him, got very nervous, and wobbled which is when they pulled him over.
Just wondering what the situation is regards fines and points? He doesn't have much money at all and is looking for work.
The fine is income based, so ignore "I got £200", "i saw someone on TV get £250", etc, etc. Also, if the offence date is after 13 April 2015 then don't forget the criminal courts charge, prosecution costs and victim surcharge.
No insurance is 6-8pp. Careless driving is 3-9pp. Generally, the court will not aggregate points but impose the upper range for the more serious offence and no separate penalty for the less serious matter. In the circumstances mentioned the range of penalty points available to the court is 6-9 (minimum for no ins and max for CD). If OP were to plead guilty to No Insurance but not guilty to careless driving then it's very likely the prosecuting authority would withdraw the CD matter. This wouldn't be guaranteed but I'd say 90%+ probability. That leaves only no insurance. Doesn't sound like a defence or special reasons on the facts mentioned.
No insurance is 6-8pp. Careless driving is 3-9pp. Generally, the court will not aggregate points but impose the upper range for the more serious offence and no separate penalty for the less serious matter. In the circumstances mentioned the range of penalty points available to the court is 6-9 (minimum for no ins and max for CD). If OP were to plead guilty to No Insurance but not guilty to careless driving then it's very likely the prosecuting authority would withdraw the CD matter. This wouldn't be guaranteed but I'd say 90%+ probability. That leaves only no insurance. Doesn't sound like a defence or special reasons on the facts mentioned.
when I say I wobble, you're right, its a little more, the official statement on the letter says:
"pc noticed that vehicle xxx was driving slowly causing them to alter the speed of the police vehicle. The car then crossed over the white like and all four wheels were in the opposite lane. It then moved back to the correct side of the carriageway. The car then struck the nearside kerb. PC signalled for the driver to pull over"
No argument, clearly in the wrong, just wondering what will happen to the lad.
"pc noticed that vehicle xxx was driving slowly causing them to alter the speed of the police vehicle. The car then crossed over the white like and all four wheels were in the opposite lane. It then moved back to the correct side of the carriageway. The car then struck the nearside kerb. PC signalled for the driver to pull over"
No argument, clearly in the wrong, just wondering what will happen to the lad.
campermanj said:
If he arrived here 9 months ago surely he (being a right wing pher here) would have been an illegal immigrant???? I'm sure Bulgaria joined the eu on the 1 January???? Anyway???? What would happen if he was outside the Eu would probably be preferable???
They have been free to travel/live here for many years now as a member of the EU, their working rights came in January 2014.campermanj said:
If he arrived here 9 months ago surely he (being a right wing pher here) would have been an illegal immigrant???? I'm sure Bulgaria joined the eu on the 1 January???? Anyway???? What would happen if he was outside the Eu would probably be preferable???
Never let facts get in the way of a good rant, eh?jagracer said:
Just out of interest, if he's had a UK licence for less than 2 years does the losing your licence altogether thing happen if he gets more than 6 points?
I'm English and don't fully know the rules, please don't send me back to Bolton.
Excellent point - his licence will be revoked.I'm English and don't fully know the rules, please don't send me back to Bolton.
On second thoughts, it may not be that straightforward as he transferred his licence from a Bulgarian one. The 6-point rule applies within 2 years of passing your test.
Edited by chazwind on Sunday 10th May 10:15
jagracer said:
Just out of interest, if he's had a UK licence for less than 2 years does the losing your licence altogether thing happen if he gets more than 6 points?
No, because it's not within 2yrs of passing his first driving test.As an EU national, he didn't need to change his Bulgarian licence for a UK one - but the outcome would have been the same, because he'd have had a UK shadow licence created to hold the points.
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