RE: Toyota GT86 facelift details
Discussion
Save Ferris said:
MC Bodge said:
Save Ferris said:
hasn't sold that well in the UK.
Is this true, though?I'm a Toyota salesman, and have been for 11 years. Although it was never destined to be a volume seller, it is still selling less than anticipated. I'm a big fan and most of the people who drive it love it, we just don't get enough serious people in, perhaps put off by the stats, the badge, or the price?
Tannedbaldhead said:
Save Ferris said:
MC Bodge said:
Save Ferris said:
hasn't sold that well in the UK.
Is this true, though?I'm a Toyota salesman, and have been for 11 years. Although it was never destined to be a volume seller, it is still selling less than anticipated. I'm a big fan and most of the people who drive it love it, we just don't get enough serious people in, perhaps put off by the stats, the badge, or the price?
Considering the GT86 is now retailing at two thirds the cost of a 135i it's no surprise that the BMW is a superior car. Thing is I just looked up 6+23 month, 10k miles per annum deals on both cars. The Beemer will set you back £367 a month, the Toyota £390. Now to put the Toyota on a more competitive level it should be accessible at two thirds the lease cost of the BMW, about £245 a month (basically a lease price in proportion to its purchase price).
Now at £245 a month I have a feeling the GT86 would turn out to be the sales success Toyota were hoping for.
LordGrover said:
Yep, just checked my speedo; 7,400
Max power is definitely lower. Mine's been on RR twice, before and after remap - both times peaked at a little over 6,000.
I know power on dyno readouts usually varies from the quoted figures in the rpm it is developed at as well as the quantity, the low mileage of your car could also influence these figures if the engine has not fully loosened up yet. Lovely car anyway, hope you are enjoying it! Max power is definitely lower. Mine's been on RR twice, before and after remap - both times peaked at a little over 6,000.
LordGrover said:
TheFinners said:
LordGrover said:
They leave the factory with 7,100(?) limit but may be safely mapped to 8,000 if you use v-power. Not much point though as max BHP is at a tad over 6,000 RPM.
That isn't quite correct, redline is 7400/7500 and limiter is presumably 200rpm or so above that and max power is at 7k standard.Max power is definitely lower. Mine's been on RR twice, before and after remap - both times peaked at a little over 6,000.
Save Ferris said:
Just as a point of interest, in the near on 3 years since release, I have not had one person compare it with the 135i.
The strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
What a pile of sThe strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
te.I had a GT86 for 40k miles and would not have ever considered a 135i as a sports car alternative.......
jjr1 said:
Save Ferris said:
Just as a point of interest, in the near on 3 years since release, I have not had one person compare it with the 135i.
The strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
What a pile of sThe strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
te.I had a GT86 for 40k miles and would not have ever considered a 135i as a sports car alternative.......
The 86/BRZ is very similar to the T Sport Celica which was last made 2004/5. 7 seconds to 60, 140mph, dimensions similar. The major difference is RWD and a less interesting engine.
I am just back from Sydney and have seen more 86/BRZ in 2 weeks than I have seen in the UK since the release date. Wondering why I checked the price. 29,900 AUD.
£15k.
I am just back from Sydney and have seen more 86/BRZ in 2 weeks than I have seen in the UK since the release date. Wondering why I checked the price. 29,900 AUD.
£15k.
jjr1 said:
Save Ferris said:
Just as a point of interest, in the near on 3 years since release, I have not had one person compare it with the 135i.
The strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
What a pile of sThe strange reality is that most GT buyers are not Pistonhead type people.
te.I had a GT86 for 40k miles and would not have ever considered a 135i as a sports car alternative.......
Too many non-readers on PH.
FlybyWyre said:
I am just back from Sydney and have seen more 86/BRZ in 2 weeks than I have seen in the UK since the release date. Wondering why I checked the price. 29,900 AUD.
£15k.
£15k.
And about £17k in Japan, apparently.They are not selling new because the UK list price is a rip off and the finance deals are poor.
Olivera said:
Are you not confusing peak torque with peak power? If peak power is a little over 6,000 then peak torque is much lower still, this would make the last 1400rpm utterly redundant and would mean a terrible NA engine.
Nope. The torque curve is pretty flat which is why it's such a good drive, if you learn how to enjoy it. I think the issue is, many have come to think of torque as a rising curve as I assume in a turbo. This is more like my old TVR V8 (stop the snickering). Clearly not the massive shove, but it comes in early (such as it is) and pretty much stays there. I wish I had my graphs to hand but can't find them. Will look at the weekend.
I really think those who've actually driven them and been disappointed may've just put their foot down, found it lacking compared to other modern, more powerful/torquey turbos and diesels, and decided it's crap. If I tried to drive that way I'd be disappointed too. You need to learn the engine/power characteristics and drive to it.
Toyota's issue is that they are trying to sell what is effectively an 80's car in the 21st century. The car is excellent, despite people criticizing it for a lack of power, but the UK market is a fickle one where brands and fashion count for everything, especially in this particular segment.
Other markets in the world aren't influenced by this in the same way and I understand the car is quite a success in the US, Japan, Australia, etc.
A lot of comments relate to the pricing. I don't think Toyota could sell it cheaper than they currently do (at least not without making a loss). Given that this is a bespoke sports car with no platform sharing and very few shared components, it's astonishing that they manage to sell it for the price that they do. Also, it's often difficult to compare price with other markets where exchange rates and import taxes influence price, as does sales volume in that particular country. Quite often specifications and warranties aren't the same either.
As someone has already mentioned, once the trend for taking the p#ss out of the car has passed by, these will become quite desirable in the UK within the next few years.
Other markets in the world aren't influenced by this in the same way and I understand the car is quite a success in the US, Japan, Australia, etc.
A lot of comments relate to the pricing. I don't think Toyota could sell it cheaper than they currently do (at least not without making a loss). Given that this is a bespoke sports car with no platform sharing and very few shared components, it's astonishing that they manage to sell it for the price that they do. Also, it's often difficult to compare price with other markets where exchange rates and import taxes influence price, as does sales volume in that particular country. Quite often specifications and warranties aren't the same either.
As someone has already mentioned, once the trend for taking the p#ss out of the car has passed by, these will become quite desirable in the UK within the next few years.
hora said:
It also confuses as there is no turbo (yet?) and its too small to be n/a for a proper sportscar. I.e 2.7cc+
For the market its lacking shouty standout features.
This logic falls down though in the face of the MX-5. Same as a poster above who suggested it wasn't selling due to the badge.For the market its lacking shouty standout features.
xRIEx said:
hora said:
It also confuses as there is no turbo (yet?) and its too small to be n/a for a proper sportscar. I.e 2.7cc+
For the market its lacking shouty standout features.
This logic falls down though in the face of the MX-5. Same as a poster above who suggested it wasn't selling due to the badge.For the market its lacking shouty standout features.
Calza said:
So how are they selling it for the equivalent of £15k in Australia?
I'm just guessing here, but I believe:1) £15k is for the entry level version, no climate, spoiler, 16" wheels, etc etc
2) Australia has a free trade agreement with Japan hence preferential cost advantages on cars made there.
3) Exchange rates may be more favourable?
4) We're probably subject to different car regulations and new car taxes.
5) 3 year warranty vs our 5 year
Quickmoose said:
All this lack of take-up means it'll soon be a modern classic no?
I reckon so. I have been wondering if couple of year old one for £16K is a good buy or not. I reckon they will follow prices like those of S2 Elises and likely never drop much below £10k to £12k for nice condition lowish miles cars, both low volume and similar demographics and buyers probably. Its interesting also seeing the mental prices on certain years of the S2000 in really good condition. Having said all that if I bought one and liked it I would probably end up using the car up and eventually running it into the ground.uncler said:
A lot of comments relate to the pricing. I don't think Toyota could sell it cheaper than they currently do (at least not without making a loss).
The problem isn't so much the purchase price as the lease/contract hire price. Considering its purchase price, the GT86's strong residuals and the current low interest rates the 3+36 procurement route as opposed to outright purchase seems comparatively high. I know the 135M isn't a direct rival but if I was in the market for a GT86 (and within a couple of years I might be) I'd be very aware that with the right deal I could be in the little BMW for not much more or possible even less and would thus be thinking hard about the very different qualities both cars have to offer. I'd also start wondering whether I'd rather be in the baldhead tanning new MX5 and then there's the temptation of a nice little blue Mountune Fiesta ST and an extra hundred odd pound a month in my pocket.
Decisions decisions. That's a lot of test driving. Wonder what the salesmen on the Test Drive Etiquette would have to say about that.
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