7 style project options
Discussion
A bit of a unusual one.
My MD has decided it would be a great idea for our company to build / refurbish a kit car!
The criteria are a 7 style car, initial budget is up to £5k with funds available after that to complete, smaller chunks of approx £500 a time (so he can sneak it past the FD, his wife!). The main one is it has to require some work (anything from a complete strip down and re-build to a light restoration) although somewhere in between would be good. No new builds.
The objectives are to have a car at the end that anybody in the company can use either on the road or on track and to give the apprentices a project to work on and learn some new skills. As the only real car nut it has landed on me organise most of this!
The problem with this is I only have a small amount of knowledge on these types of cars. This amounts to once hiring one for the day and reading the Haynes how to build a sports car book!
Obviously the first thing we have to do is source a car. I've been looking on eBay and it seems you can buy a lot of tiger 6 for £5k and some nice looking westfields. I'd really love a caterham but all the cars on eBay are complete cars which we don't really want and go for ALOT more money. I've heard robin hoods are poor and look very shonkey to my eyes. I am tempted by a MK Indy as they are only located about 5 miles away. The main problem I've come across so far is finding something that needs some work, where are all the unfished projects I imagine are out there? A lot of the ones I've seen so far just look like good honest straight cars that maybe could do with a bit of a fettle.
So collective wisdom of PH, what are your suggestions on what car and where can I find them? And I promise to start a readers car thread when we get going.
My MD has decided it would be a great idea for our company to build / refurbish a kit car!
The criteria are a 7 style car, initial budget is up to £5k with funds available after that to complete, smaller chunks of approx £500 a time (so he can sneak it past the FD, his wife!). The main one is it has to require some work (anything from a complete strip down and re-build to a light restoration) although somewhere in between would be good. No new builds.
The objectives are to have a car at the end that anybody in the company can use either on the road or on track and to give the apprentices a project to work on and learn some new skills. As the only real car nut it has landed on me organise most of this!
The problem with this is I only have a small amount of knowledge on these types of cars. This amounts to once hiring one for the day and reading the Haynes how to build a sports car book!
Obviously the first thing we have to do is source a car. I've been looking on eBay and it seems you can buy a lot of tiger 6 for £5k and some nice looking westfields. I'd really love a caterham but all the cars on eBay are complete cars which we don't really want and go for ALOT more money. I've heard robin hoods are poor and look very shonkey to my eyes. I am tempted by a MK Indy as they are only located about 5 miles away. The main problem I've come across so far is finding something that needs some work, where are all the unfished projects I imagine are out there? A lot of the ones I've seen so far just look like good honest straight cars that maybe could do with a bit of a fettle.
So collective wisdom of PH, what are your suggestions on what car and where can I find them? And I promise to start a readers car thread when we get going.
Have a look through www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum.
Its a good place to start for all things seven and other builds.
HTH
Its a good place to start for all things seven and other builds.
HTH
Just a couple of comments on your options -
New build from kit - you have ruled this out
Part built that needs finishing off - you need to budget between £500-1000 of your £5k to get it through IVA (super MOT) and therefore need to choose a kit that is IVA compliant and not an older kit that was built for the old SVA, IVA is much stricter on things like body radii. Noting you may well have to undo lost of the previous owners work to get it up to scratch (there is usually a reason why part built cars are up for sale)
Already complete and registered needing refurb or engine swap - there are quite a few out there, you need to check the car is correctly registered on the log book i.e. should say MK Indy, Sylva Striker, Westfield etc. not Escort, Sierra or MX5 (or Dutton !). As the previous poster says, look on Locostbuilders for these, they come up fairly often (along with part builds).
As for the Seven Hierarchy, you have already spotted the rough ladder in terms of quality and price - Robin Hood, Locost/F27, MK/Sylva-Raw/Road Runner/MNR, Westfield, Caterham. That said if you are looking for a car to refurb it will be more about the quality of the parts (and previous owners engineering skills) rather than the build quality, so decent branded brakes, LSD possible, IRS, running gear, clocks etc. is what to look out for as all of these individual parts to change cost cash.
Personally I would be looking for something like this -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVA-STRIKER-/221769253...
Strip it down to bare chassis, refurb and rebuild, then plan on upgrades later. Note, the Striker in my opinion is one of the best sevens out there, not a true replica as it has a style of it's own but one of the best chassis out there (Raw Engineering now make/sell them).
Finally thought, and the elephant in the room, is BEC or CEC, again personally, given this will be a company play toy for all to use I would stick with a Car Engine as this is more familiar for the majority of inexperienced drivers. Also note that driving a kit car with say 150hp and 600kg is equivalent bhp/ton to a Porsche 911 and also rear wheel drive which most people under the age of 40 will never have driven, so I would bear this in mind when giving instructions to the potential drivers, it is not a hot hatch that will get you out of trouble with electronics if you push it over the boundary.
Just a few pointers, hope they help and good look with the search.
New build from kit - you have ruled this out
Part built that needs finishing off - you need to budget between £500-1000 of your £5k to get it through IVA (super MOT) and therefore need to choose a kit that is IVA compliant and not an older kit that was built for the old SVA, IVA is much stricter on things like body radii. Noting you may well have to undo lost of the previous owners work to get it up to scratch (there is usually a reason why part built cars are up for sale)
Already complete and registered needing refurb or engine swap - there are quite a few out there, you need to check the car is correctly registered on the log book i.e. should say MK Indy, Sylva Striker, Westfield etc. not Escort, Sierra or MX5 (or Dutton !). As the previous poster says, look on Locostbuilders for these, they come up fairly often (along with part builds).
As for the Seven Hierarchy, you have already spotted the rough ladder in terms of quality and price - Robin Hood, Locost/F27, MK/Sylva-Raw/Road Runner/MNR, Westfield, Caterham. That said if you are looking for a car to refurb it will be more about the quality of the parts (and previous owners engineering skills) rather than the build quality, so decent branded brakes, LSD possible, IRS, running gear, clocks etc. is what to look out for as all of these individual parts to change cost cash.
Personally I would be looking for something like this -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVA-STRIKER-/221769253...
Strip it down to bare chassis, refurb and rebuild, then plan on upgrades later. Note, the Striker in my opinion is one of the best sevens out there, not a true replica as it has a style of it's own but one of the best chassis out there (Raw Engineering now make/sell them).
Finally thought, and the elephant in the room, is BEC or CEC, again personally, given this will be a company play toy for all to use I would stick with a Car Engine as this is more familiar for the majority of inexperienced drivers. Also note that driving a kit car with say 150hp and 600kg is equivalent bhp/ton to a Porsche 911 and also rear wheel drive which most people under the age of 40 will never have driven, so I would bear this in mind when giving instructions to the potential drivers, it is not a hot hatch that will get you out of trouble with electronics if you push it over the boundary.
Just a few pointers, hope they help and good look with the search.
I can't buy into what is good value in the UK market but another big thing to bear in mind is cockpit size.
My Locost is close to MNR in size and I drove a mates Birkin on the track and found it very cramped and short armed.
Most of the smaller cars can be made to suit a person but not all will be comfortable, particularly those with a bigger hoof
My Locost is close to MNR in size and I drove a mates Birkin on the track and found it very cramped and short armed.
Most of the smaller cars can be made to suit a person but not all will be comfortable, particularly those with a bigger hoof
If it has to be a Seven, then I would look for a scruffy Westfield.
If you are prepared to look beyond Sevens, then I would suggest rebuilding an old Marlin Roadster.
The little Marlin is a lovely looking thing, with echoes of classic Alfa. Simple, robust and, in my opinion, very much undervalued.
Rebuilding an old kit car avoids IVA, though it is vital to buy something which was properly registered back in the day.
The Westfield is a good choice because of the factory back up. Not sure how you get on these days with bits for a Marlin, but someone out there will know.
If you are prepared to look beyond Sevens, then I would suggest rebuilding an old Marlin Roadster.
The little Marlin is a lovely looking thing, with echoes of classic Alfa. Simple, robust and, in my opinion, very much undervalued.
Rebuilding an old kit car avoids IVA, though it is vital to buy something which was properly registered back in the day.
The Westfield is a good choice because of the factory back up. Not sure how you get on these days with bits for a Marlin, but someone out there will know.
Quote.
The objectives are to have a car at the end that anybody in the company can use either on the road or on track and to give the apprentices a project to work on and learn some new skills.
End quote.
As a member on Locostbuilders and having scratch built my seven I'm struggling to understand what the apprentices will learn from buying a car thats already built.
If the object is to be a learning experience then somewhere along the line they will need to build/make stuff.
Personally I did start off with a skill ( I'm a qualified welder ) but the design, mechanical, electrical & engineering side of a car were new to me.
Learning new skills is what made my project worthwhile.
Cheers
Paul G
The objectives are to have a car at the end that anybody in the company can use either on the road or on track and to give the apprentices a project to work on and learn some new skills.
End quote.
As a member on Locostbuilders and having scratch built my seven I'm struggling to understand what the apprentices will learn from buying a car thats already built.
If the object is to be a learning experience then somewhere along the line they will need to build/make stuff.
Personally I did start off with a skill ( I'm a qualified welder ) but the design, mechanical, electrical & engineering side of a car were new to me.
Learning new skills is what made my project worthwhile.
Cheers
Paul G
Edited by finishing touch on Wednesday 13th May 07:37
finishing touch said:
As a member on Locostbuilders and having scratch built my seven I'm struggling to understand what the apprentices will learn from buying a car thats already built.
Cheers
Paul G
Oh I dunno.Cheers
Paul G
If you buy an elderly Westfield or Marlin then there is going to be plenty of scope for welding chassis tubes, fettling aluminium panels and a bit of fibreglass work.
And that's before you get into mechanical reconditioning and re-wiring.
I rebuilt a scruffy Caterham about five years ago and there was plenty to get my teeth into.
the above mentioned sylva might be a good project....but:
this radiator cannot work in that position. battery should be located in the back of the car not front.the cockpit is awfull and most likely the fiat senders do not match with the ford gauges. necessary: new paintwork, new alloy panels, chassis and suspension need to be renovated, quite unusual front lower suspension using the original arb from the escort.
considering that the below striker (in "as new" condition with 3k miles on the clock) was sold aournd a year ago for 3500pound, this scruffy one is already too expensive.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/wmUDn6Ud.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/I59lhx47" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/I59lhx47.jpg)
this radiator cannot work in that position. battery should be located in the back of the car not front.the cockpit is awfull and most likely the fiat senders do not match with the ford gauges. necessary: new paintwork, new alloy panels, chassis and suspension need to be renovated, quite unusual front lower suspension using the original arb from the escort.
considering that the below striker (in "as new" condition with 3k miles on the clock) was sold aournd a year ago for 3500pound, this scruffy one is already too expensive.
Edited by GinG15 on Wednesday 13th May 11:56
GinG15 said:
the above mentioned sylva might be a good project....but:
That Sylva is a pretty good starting point.They are reputedly nice handling things, and that twin cam appeals. It would make a nice sportscar with a classic feel. I rather like the Rostyles, too.
But the dashboard..... Jeez, what's that all about? And there is quite a lot to do to sort the rest of the scruffy mess out. And you are stuck with a "Q" plate.
The problem with projects is that they are rarely cost effective. My experience strongly suggests that the cheapest way to own a lovely car is to buy a minter and keep it perfect.
As soon as you launch into restoration work, then the costs will spiral. But that's not what this thread is all about. The OP wants a project and this Sylva looks like a good prospect. That said, just watch it fetch £2500 or something daft.
Pat H said:
finishing touch said:
As a member on Locostbuilders and having scratch built my seven I'm struggling to understand what the apprentices will learn from buying a car thats already built.
Cheers
Paul G
Oh I dunno.Cheers
Paul G
If you buy an elderly Westfield or Marlin then there is going to be plenty of scope for welding chassis tubes, fettling aluminium panels and a bit of fibreglass work.
And that's before you get into mechanical reconditioning and re-wiring.
I rebuilt a scruffy Caterham about five years ago and there was plenty to get my teeth into
Your possibly right, but my train of thought was that what's loads of work for one might not be for a group of people.
Paul G
Pat H said:
finishing touch said:
As a member on Locostbuilders and having scratch built my seven I'm struggling to understand what the apprentices will learn from buying a car thats already built.
Cheers
Paul G
Oh I dunno.Cheers
Paul G
If you buy an elderly Westfield or Marlin then there is going to be plenty of scope for welding chassis tubes, fettling aluminium panels and a bit of fibreglass work.
And that's before you get into mechanical reconditioning and re-wiring.
I rebuilt a scruffy Caterham about five years ago and there was plenty to get my teeth into
Your possibly right, but my train of thought was that what's loads of work for one might not be for a group of people.
Paul G
Pat H said:
That Sylva is a pretty good starting point.
They are reputedly nice handling things, and that twin cam appeals. It would make a nice sportscar with a classic feel. I rather like the Rostyles, too.
But the dashboard..... Jeez, what's that all about? And there is quite a lot to do to sort the rest of the scruffy mess out. And you are stuck with a "Q" plate.
The problem with projects is that they are rarely cost effective. My experience strongly suggests that the cheapest way to own a lovely car is to buy a minter and keep it perfect.
As soon as you launch into restoration work, then the costs will spiral. But that's not what this thread is all about. The OP wants a project and this Sylva looks like a good prospect. That said, just watch it fetch £2500 or something daft.
again: if you can buy a "as new" car for 3.5k why should you invest some money in such a botched-togehter basket case.They are reputedly nice handling things, and that twin cam appeals. It would make a nice sportscar with a classic feel. I rather like the Rostyles, too.
But the dashboard..... Jeez, what's that all about? And there is quite a lot to do to sort the rest of the scruffy mess out. And you are stuck with a "Q" plate.
The problem with projects is that they are rarely cost effective. My experience strongly suggests that the cheapest way to own a lovely car is to buy a minter and keep it perfect.
As soon as you launch into restoration work, then the costs will spiral. But that's not what this thread is all about. The OP wants a project and this Sylva looks like a good prospect. That said, just watch it fetch £2500 or something daft.
this car isnt worth more than 500pound!!! and its definately not worth restoring it!!!
it might make more money braking it.
a nice "old school" (live axle, x/flow) striker can be bought for 3.5 to 4k
a westfield with slight wear&tear (identical spec as above) should fetch not more than 4-4.5k
a newish/more modern tiger with zetec could be bought for 4.5 to 5.5k
a good built live axle locost could be bought for 3-5k
keeping this in mind its not worth restoring a basket case as long as the car has not a certain value afterwards.
the caterham is the only sevenish car where i could think that any renovating-investment wont get lost, because the value will increase accordingly.
a westfield with slight wear&tear (identical spec as above) should fetch not more than 4-4.5k
a newish/more modern tiger with zetec could be bought for 4.5 to 5.5k
a good built live axle locost could be bought for 3-5k
keeping this in mind its not worth restoring a basket case as long as the car has not a certain value afterwards.
the caterham is the only sevenish car where i could think that any renovating-investment wont get lost, because the value will increase accordingly.
Edited by GinG15 on Thursday 14th May 13:13
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