watch repair Panerai

watch repair Panerai

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alphonso

Original Poster:

273 posts

194 months

Wednesday 13th May 2015
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Hi all

..the second hand has fallen off my wife's Panerai. I'm sending it off under warranty but the shop (selfridges) weren't sure if they'd see it as a warranty issue and think it might cost £4-500 to repair.. I'll fight that if it comes to it but wondered if anyone could recommend a decent watchmaker so i can get a comparitive price in the meantime? London based ideally.

Cheers

JatHanspal

197 posts

106 months

Thursday 14th May 2015
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How could that not be a warranty fix? Does the warranty cover only the movement?

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Thursday 14th May 2015
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JatHanspal said:
How could that not be a warranty fix? Does the warranty cover only the movement?
They would say the watch had been dropped / knocked (possisbly a few times)and loosened the hand.

That's kind of fair enough but fixing it is so easy they'd be nuts not to do it as goodwill. It's the sort of thing I regularly do for a donation in the RBL jar on the counter even on stuff I didn't sell.

What wouldn't be fair enough is if they use the "it must've been knocked" claim to insist on £400 - £500 of servicing into the bargain. I've no idea if Paneri play that game, but some companies do and it sounds like the dealer may be setting you up for that approach.

darreni

3,759 posts

269 months

Thursday 14th May 2015
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Have a look on Paneristi.com for some OP service centre issues.
If you do send it to them, make sure you take multiple photos of the case/dial from every angle & dare stamp them.

Also, don't expect to see it for 10-12 weeks.
My brothers 112 came back with a thumbprint on the inside of the crystal after being with them for 3 months.

watchloony

18 posts

106 months

Friday 15th May 2015
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alphonso said:
Hi all

..the second hand has fallen off my wife's Panerai. I'm sending it off under warranty but the shop (selfridges) weren't sure if they'd see it as a warranty issue and think it might cost £4-500 to repair.. I'll fight that if it comes to it but wondered if anyone could recommend a decent watchmaker so i can get a comparitive price in the meantime? London based ideally.

Cheers
I will be happy to secure the seconds hand for you. A £450.00 bill is outrageous !
You can email me at 'ewatchmaker@aol.com' if this offer is not breaking forum rules!
Brendan.

Adrian W

13,848 posts

227 months

Friday 15th May 2015
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Variomatic said:
hey would say the watch had been dropped / knocked (possisbly a few times)and loosened the hand.

That's kind of fair enough but fixing it is so easy they'd be nuts not to do it as goodwill. It's the sort of thing I regularly do for a donation in the RBL jar on the counter even on stuff I didn't sell.

What wouldn't be fair enough is if they use the "it must've been knocked" claim to insist on £400 - £500 of servicing into the bargain. I've no idea if Paneri play that game, but some companies do and it sounds like the dealer may be setting you up for that approach.
I would be pretty pissed off if a hand fell off one of my watches whatever the age, and pretty much whatever the use history,

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Friday 15th May 2015
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Adrian W said:
I would be pretty pissed off if a hand fell off one of my watches whatever the age, and pretty much whatever the use history,
Possibly, but they are only friction fit and its entirely possible for a knock in the wrong place to loosen them. Get the angle just right and it doesn't even need that much of a knock!

I'm absolutely not saying that's what happened here, but it is possible and it is a get-out for them if they want to refuse warranty. That would be very short-sighted of them IMO for a few minutes work, but they may see it differently!

PJ S

10,842 posts

226 months

Friday 15th May 2015
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watchloony said:
I will be happy to secure the seconds hand for you. A £450.00 bill is outrageous !
You can email me at 'ewatchmaker@aol.com' if this offer is not breaking forum rules!
A magnanimous offer, Brendan, but the bill would presumably result from having had a full service done.
Daft, I know, for just putting the hand back in place, but you know what most of these companies are like for covering their backsides.

As much as I think the OP should speak with the Richemont Service Centre directly, rather than Selfridges, because it's under warranty, there's the concern it'll have something done that requires it to be returned a second time – carelessness seems to be an apt word for how some watches get treated by RSC.
So the quickest and less stressful option of taking you up on your offer, is definitely worth considering.

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Friday 15th May 2015
quotequote all
PJ S said:
A magnanimous offer, Brendan, but the bill would presumably result from having had a full service done.
Exactly this. "It must have taken a knock for it to come off, so we'll have to do a full service to ensure reliability".

The sad thing is, people must fall for it or they'd stop trying it on!

watchloony

18 posts

106 months

Saturday 16th May 2015
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PJ S said:
A magnanimous offer, Brendan, but the bill would presumably result from having had a full service done.
Daft, I know, for just putting the hand back in place, but you know what most of these companies are like for covering their backsides.

As much as I think the OP should speak with the Richemont Service Centre directly, rather than Selfridges, because it's under warranty, there's the concern it'll have something done that requires it to be returned a second time – carelessness seems to be an apt word for how some watches get treated by RSC.
So the quickest and less stressful option of taking you up on your offer, is definitely worth considering.
I hate wasting money. Mine or anyone else's.
Since the case has to be opened to re-fit the hand, it's no bother to see if the watch does in fact need a service. My timer will soon reveal errors, if any,in the movement.

Brendan

Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Saturday 16th May 2015
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The hour marker fell off my Panerai a few months after purchase. Sent it back to be told that it was due to me having dropped the watch (which i hadn't). They said that there was a clearly visible dent on the case to prove it, but when i requested a photo of the damage, they said it wouldn't show up on a photo. Then they decided to fix it free of charge and mailed it back repaired.

Odd customer service.

PJ S

10,842 posts

226 months

Saturday 16th May 2015
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Jules360 said:
The hour marker fell off my Panerai a few months after purchase. Sent it back to be told that it was due to me having dropped the watch (which i hadn't). They said that there was a clearly visible dent on the case to prove it, but when i requested a photo of the damage, they said it wouldn't show up on a photo. Then they decided to fix it free of charge and mailed it back repaired.

Odd customer service.
Nothing odd about it whatsoever – it's outright deceitful, and displays perfectly how certain brands view their customers as gullible cash cows.

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Saturday 16th May 2015
quotequote all
Jules360 said:
The hour marker fell off my Panerai a few months after purchase. Sent it back to be told that it was due to me having dropped the watch (which i hadn't). They said that there was a clearly visible dent on the case to prove it, but when i requested a photo of the damage, they said it wouldn't show up on a photo. Then they decided to fix it free of charge and mailed it back repaired.

Odd customer service.
I would've been tempted to ask for a full refund on the basis that if it dented from a (non-existent) drop it was obviously made of cheese, not the stainless steel they'd sold it as biggrin

alphonso

Original Poster:

273 posts

194 months

Wednesday 20th May 2015
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guys, thanks you so much and especially Brendan, that's very kind of you.

...it's still with Panerai. I'm told a 3 week wait with no obligation to use them if they want to charge me. The service cost was mentioned but I'll just have them return it after reading your comments.

Brendan, I'll be in touch.. good karma heading your way

cheers all, I'll let you know how it pans out

Al

GhostyDog

464 posts

206 months

Wednesday 20th May 2015
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Im interested to see how this 'pans' out wink

The mainspring went whilst winding my base titanio a week or so back, my OD said it would have to go back to Panerai for a service @ £300-£400 cost, I bought it in 2012 so unfortunately out of warranty.

Interested in other more cost effective options...

I bought my other half a Cartier automatic a month back and it turned out it was losing about a minute a day, so off to Richemont for warranty work, thankfully no cost but will see what it comes back like, it went unblemished, it better come back that way :/

GD

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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Tricky one with the Base series.

They use the P5000 movement which is an in-house full plate movement with no separate barrel bridge and twin mainsprings. Full plate movements look nice and tidy, but mean you have to strip the movement completely to replace the springs. If you're stripping a watch that far then it doesn't make sense not to fully service it at the same time - it'd be like replacing just the friction plate in your clutch and hoping the rest will be ok.

The correct spring size also isn't listed in any of the normal places - probably because replacement has been rare up until now, seeing as the movement was only released around the time of your watch. That doesn't mean it's not available from anyone but them, but it does mean that the old one would need to be removed and measured to match it up. You may find at that point that it's not a stock available size, in which case you either reassemble as an unfinished job or fit the nearest available, which is bad practice.

All that costs time (and aggravation if you end up returning undone) which naturally pushes the price up, whereas Panerai will have the correct spring to hand and will only do it as part of a service anyway.

One of those few cases where, as an indie, I'd try to point you in the direction of the nearest AD (or, better, send direct if possible to cut out the dealer's mark-up) if you walked into my workshop with it. Not because I couldn't repair it, simply because it'd be unlikely to save you much!

GhostyDog

464 posts

206 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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Variomatic said:
Tricky one with the Base series.

They use the P5000 movement which is an in-house full plate movement with no separate barrel bridge and twin mainsprings. Full plate movements look nice and tidy, but mean you have to strip the movement completely to replace the springs. If you're stripping a watch that far then it doesn't make sense not to fully service it at the same time - it'd be like replacing just the friction plate in your clutch and hoping the rest will be ok.

The correct spring size also isn't listed in any of the normal places - probably because replacement has been rare up until now, seeing as the movement was only released around the time of your watch. That doesn't mean it's not available from anyone but them, but it does mean that the old one would need to be removed and measured to match it up. You may find at that point that it's not a stock available size, in which case you either reassemble as an unfinished job or fit the nearest available, which is bad practice.

All that costs time (and aggravation if you end up returning undone) which naturally pushes the price up, whereas Panerai will have the correct spring to hand and will only do it as part of a service anyway.

One of those few cases where, as an indie, I'd try to point you in the direction of the nearest AD (or, better, send direct if possible to cut out the dealer's mark-up) if you walked into my workshop with it. Not because I couldn't repair it, simply because it'd be unlikely to save you much!
Hi Variomatic,

Mine is actually the previous gen, prior to installing the P5000 they used a heavily modified ebauche, I believe its a ETA movement.

Mines the PAM00176 with this movement

internet said:
Panerai OP X Calibre. In house, developed by Panerai based on caliber ETA 6497. Swiss made, mechanical manual-winding movement.

Specs
Function: Two hands. Size: 16½‴ lignes (Ø 36.6 mm), ± 4.5mm thick. 17 jewels. beats at 21,600 vph (3 Hz). provides ± 56 hours of power reserve.

Featuring Glucydur balance, Nivarox I balance spring, Incabloc anti-shock device, “Swan’s neck” regulation of the active length of the balance spring. Beautified with Côtes de Genève decoration on the bridges, perlage, and Blued screws.
P.S Sorry for the thread hijack

Edited by GhostyDog on Thursday 21st May 17:43

Variomatic

2,392 posts

160 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
quotequote all
Ahh, that one's an easy fix as long as the m/s hasn't done any damage as it broke (very unlikely but not unheard of)

Spring can be fitted without major dismantling and is available. If they quote more tan about a fifth of what the AD's suggested then they're having a laugh - especially seeing as mainspring breakage on a spring that age will have been faulty manufacture - even old blued steel springs would be expected to last 10 years + if tempered properly, and many are still going strong after 50 years or more.

Although the chances of proving manufacturing defect are virtually nil without paying more in tests than the job would cost!

Edited by Variomatic on Thursday 21st May 19:22

GhostyDog

464 posts

206 months

Friday 22nd May 2015
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Variomatic said:
Ahh, that one's an easy fix as long as the m/s hasn't done any damage as it broke (very unlikely but not unheard of)

Spring can be fitted without major dismantling and is available. If they quote more tan about a fifth of what the AD's suggested then they're having a laugh - especially seeing as mainspring breakage on a spring that age will have been faulty manufacture - even old blued steel springs would be expected to last 10 years + if tempered properly, and many are still going strong after 50 years or more.

Although the chances of proving manufacturing defect are virtually nil without paying more in tests than the job would cost!

Edited by Variomatic on Thursday 21st May 19:22
Thanks, I'm popping in to pick up the other watch tomorrow, I will discuss with them an appropriate way forward, as you say, I wouldn't expect the mainspring to go after only 3 years, I don't even wear it every day, and I have a watch with an automatic ETA movement in it that was made in 2000 still going strong never been serviced keeps perfect time (although it feels a bit grumbly when you spin the counterweight).

alphonso

Original Poster:

273 posts

194 months

Thursday 28th May 2015
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Ok.. this was the response from Panerai.. they want to charge £965 (including £500 for a madatory service).. thoughts?

Following careful examination of your watch by our Master Watchmaker, diagnostics show that the case has received a shock/impact to the crystal. This has caused the movement to malfunction. Therefore, it is necessary to perform a complete service and replace the crystal in order to return your watch to full working order.

Diagnostics also show that the dial feet are broken and the hands are damaged due to the impact to the crystal. We therefore conclude that a replacement dial is necessary in order to ensure the security of the movement.

Diagnostics show that your watch is scratched and shows signs of general wear and tear. We therefore suggest to undertake a professional case polish in order to restore the aesthetic appeal. Please be advised that the polish will be as best possible, it may be difficult to remove heavy dents or scratches without compromising the shape of the timepiece.