Get on with it!
Discussion
Decisiveness V Hesitancy
Those of us who take more of an interest or pride in our driving tend to think further ahead and make driving plans as we go. Those plans often involve other road users and I've previously written about how we can pick out clues about what other drivers are going to do, and develop our driving plans as a result of those predictions.
The trouble is, I'm finding that I'm increasingly guilty of expecting too much of other drivers in these circumstances. By "too much", I don't mean that I'm expecting other drivers to be using the limit point to assess the speed of corners, planning ahead for multi-vehicle overtakes or balancing a car under acceleration out of a bend.
No - by "expecting too much", I mean I'm too often guilty of expecting other drivers to approach a junction with a little prior thought about how the junction works and who has priority. Or if its safe, expecting the vehicle in front to accelerate up to somehere near the speed limit for the road. Or to at least give some thought to overtaking a tractor and trailer travelling at 20mph on a national speed limit road.
But unfortunately, an increasing number of drivers seem to be becoming more and more hesitant. And that tendency is making it increasingly difficult to correctly predict what other drivers are going to do.
For example, I was following a Landrover Freelander the other day, through a fairly busy built-up area, towards some roadworks. The local authority were refreshing the road surface and a little further ahead, the top 3 or 4 inches of tarmac had been removed, leaving a few slightly exposed manhole covers and a small drop from the old surface onto the shaved surface.
At the drop was the usual battered "RAMP" sign and having driven over the same works the previous day, I knew there was no need to slow from the 25mph or so we were travelling at.
The Freelander driver, however, had different ideas.
He stopped.
And then - ever so slowly - crept forward in first gear at around 5mph through the whole length of the roadworks before stopping again at the "up" ramp (3 or 4 inches high) which he then crept up before driving off again as normal.
Now, last time I looked, cars were fitted with tyres and suspension more than capable of dealing with a shaved road surface. Freelanders in particular have higher ground clearance and a level of off road ability which would have made these works virtually unnoticable. So why the hesitancy?
Get on with it!
A good driver should be able to strike a balance between cautiousness - where appropriate - and decisiveness - again, where appropriate. Unfortunately, decisiveness seems to be a rapidly dying ability amongst the British driving public.
Lets look at a few examples:
When you're approaching a set of traffic lights showing green, it's always correct to have a plan to stop in your mind, because if there's one other absolute certainty in life (apart from death and taxes), its that a green light will at some point become red.
But there seems to be an awful lot of "defeatist" drivers who approach a green light as though it's already turned red. They slow down, take a lower gear, slow down some more, increase their gap from the car in front, and then the inevitable happens - the lights go red and they roll to a stop.
Get on with it!
Surely it's better to keep up with the traffic in front? If you do, you'll present a picture of a single line of traffic to the induction loop in the road surface and the lights are far more likely to remain green until they recognise a gap in the traffic. There's no guarantee, of course, and you should always be ready to stop, but don't be a defeatist on the approach to traffic lights!
Whilst we're on the subject of lines of traffic, there are an awful lot of drivers who seem to struggle with stopping in traffic. They stop short, you stop behind them, they then start to creep forward a few feet, stop again, creep forward again, stop, creep. And if you don't follow suit you end up looking like you're the one who's stopped three or four car lengths short. The ones who do it on uphill stretches are the worst. They sit balancing their clutches sometimes for minutes at a time, creeping slowly forwards...
Get on with it!
Roll down to a nice smooth stop in traffic - once. Leave two or three feet between your car and the one in front and then handbrake-neutral. Its far more mechanically sympathetic and allows the car to make full use of stop-start if its fitted.
And - still in traffic - it seems there are many drivers who stop in traffic and are then suddenly caught completely by surprise when the traffic starts to move again. The car in front moves off, at which point they seem to physically jump with surprise, look down to check where first gear is (has it moved from last time), apply some throttle, balance the clutch, look down to see if the handbrake has moved - it hasn't - release the handbrake and then set off five or more seconds after the car in front has gone.
Get on with it!
Just look a little further ahead - when the vehicles ahead are starting to move, take first gear and wait with your hand ready on the handbrake. If you're first at the lights, look at what the other traffic is doing and see if you can get a view of the opposing lights to give you a clue when your lights will go green.
Slow-moving vehicles are a fact of life - particularly in rural areas - but theree seems to be an entire breed of drivers these days who are completely averse to even considering overtaking even the slowest tractor on the best sighted roads. Not only do they not look for an opportunity to overtake, they also seem incapable of leaving a reasonable gap between their vehicle and the slow-mover to allow other drivers to overtake if its safe.
Get on with it!
Position for a view, keep a flexible gear and overtake when its safe. If you really don't want to overtake, drop back, leave a reasonable gap, and let those behind have a go.
This is all staring to sound like a bit of a rant. It isn't.
Hesitancy is something we've all suffered from when we started learning to drive, but decisiveness should develop as your driving experience increases, and as long as you retain the correct level of cautiousness in your thought processes, decisiveness should be a key component in a good drivers armoury of skills and abilities.
Those of us who take more of an interest or pride in our driving tend to think further ahead and make driving plans as we go. Those plans often involve other road users and I've previously written about how we can pick out clues about what other drivers are going to do, and develop our driving plans as a result of those predictions.
The trouble is, I'm finding that I'm increasingly guilty of expecting too much of other drivers in these circumstances. By "too much", I don't mean that I'm expecting other drivers to be using the limit point to assess the speed of corners, planning ahead for multi-vehicle overtakes or balancing a car under acceleration out of a bend.
No - by "expecting too much", I mean I'm too often guilty of expecting other drivers to approach a junction with a little prior thought about how the junction works and who has priority. Or if its safe, expecting the vehicle in front to accelerate up to somehere near the speed limit for the road. Or to at least give some thought to overtaking a tractor and trailer travelling at 20mph on a national speed limit road.
But unfortunately, an increasing number of drivers seem to be becoming more and more hesitant. And that tendency is making it increasingly difficult to correctly predict what other drivers are going to do.
For example, I was following a Landrover Freelander the other day, through a fairly busy built-up area, towards some roadworks. The local authority were refreshing the road surface and a little further ahead, the top 3 or 4 inches of tarmac had been removed, leaving a few slightly exposed manhole covers and a small drop from the old surface onto the shaved surface.
At the drop was the usual battered "RAMP" sign and having driven over the same works the previous day, I knew there was no need to slow from the 25mph or so we were travelling at.
The Freelander driver, however, had different ideas.
He stopped.
And then - ever so slowly - crept forward in first gear at around 5mph through the whole length of the roadworks before stopping again at the "up" ramp (3 or 4 inches high) which he then crept up before driving off again as normal.
Now, last time I looked, cars were fitted with tyres and suspension more than capable of dealing with a shaved road surface. Freelanders in particular have higher ground clearance and a level of off road ability which would have made these works virtually unnoticable. So why the hesitancy?
Get on with it!
A good driver should be able to strike a balance between cautiousness - where appropriate - and decisiveness - again, where appropriate. Unfortunately, decisiveness seems to be a rapidly dying ability amongst the British driving public.
Lets look at a few examples:
When you're approaching a set of traffic lights showing green, it's always correct to have a plan to stop in your mind, because if there's one other absolute certainty in life (apart from death and taxes), its that a green light will at some point become red.
But there seems to be an awful lot of "defeatist" drivers who approach a green light as though it's already turned red. They slow down, take a lower gear, slow down some more, increase their gap from the car in front, and then the inevitable happens - the lights go red and they roll to a stop.
Get on with it!
Surely it's better to keep up with the traffic in front? If you do, you'll present a picture of a single line of traffic to the induction loop in the road surface and the lights are far more likely to remain green until they recognise a gap in the traffic. There's no guarantee, of course, and you should always be ready to stop, but don't be a defeatist on the approach to traffic lights!
Whilst we're on the subject of lines of traffic, there are an awful lot of drivers who seem to struggle with stopping in traffic. They stop short, you stop behind them, they then start to creep forward a few feet, stop again, creep forward again, stop, creep. And if you don't follow suit you end up looking like you're the one who's stopped three or four car lengths short. The ones who do it on uphill stretches are the worst. They sit balancing their clutches sometimes for minutes at a time, creeping slowly forwards...
Get on with it!
Roll down to a nice smooth stop in traffic - once. Leave two or three feet between your car and the one in front and then handbrake-neutral. Its far more mechanically sympathetic and allows the car to make full use of stop-start if its fitted.
And - still in traffic - it seems there are many drivers who stop in traffic and are then suddenly caught completely by surprise when the traffic starts to move again. The car in front moves off, at which point they seem to physically jump with surprise, look down to check where first gear is (has it moved from last time), apply some throttle, balance the clutch, look down to see if the handbrake has moved - it hasn't - release the handbrake and then set off five or more seconds after the car in front has gone.
Get on with it!
Just look a little further ahead - when the vehicles ahead are starting to move, take first gear and wait with your hand ready on the handbrake. If you're first at the lights, look at what the other traffic is doing and see if you can get a view of the opposing lights to give you a clue when your lights will go green.
Slow-moving vehicles are a fact of life - particularly in rural areas - but theree seems to be an entire breed of drivers these days who are completely averse to even considering overtaking even the slowest tractor on the best sighted roads. Not only do they not look for an opportunity to overtake, they also seem incapable of leaving a reasonable gap between their vehicle and the slow-mover to allow other drivers to overtake if its safe.
Get on with it!
Position for a view, keep a flexible gear and overtake when its safe. If you really don't want to overtake, drop back, leave a reasonable gap, and let those behind have a go.
This is all staring to sound like a bit of a rant. It isn't.
Hesitancy is something we've all suffered from when we started learning to drive, but decisiveness should develop as your driving experience increases, and as long as you retain the correct level of cautiousness in your thought processes, decisiveness should be a key component in a good drivers armoury of skills and abilities.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Leave two or three feet between your car and the one in front and then handbrake-neutral. Its far more mechanically sympathetic and allows the car to make full use of stop-start if its fitted.
2-3 feet? Let's hope the vehicle in front doesn't daydream and roll back, put it into reverse by mistake or break down. I'd advocate more like 10 feet as a minimum.
R_U_LOCAL said:
But there seems to be an awful lot of "defeatist" drivers who approach a green light as though it's already turned red. They slow down, take a lower gear, slow down some more, increase their gap from the car in front, and then the inevitable happens - the lights go red and they roll to a stop.
Where I live I find the opposite to be true. People speed up and try to get through before it turns red. In many cases they go through anyway, probably because they are doing 45mph by the time they turn amber so cannot stop anyway, or so they'd argue. Adamxck said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
But there seems to be an awful lot of "defeatist" drivers who approach a green light as though it's already turned red. They slow down, take a lower gear, slow down some more, increase their gap from the car in front, and then the inevitable happens - the lights go red and they roll to a stop.
Where I live I find the opposite to be true. People speed up and try to get through before it turns red. In many cases they go through anyway, probably because they are doing 45mph by the time they turn amber so cannot stop anyway, or so they'd argue. A good piece for the most part, but you're advocating a very small gap when stopped in traffic. I thought you were a police trainer? Don't box yourself in, consider your car's turning arc and build that into your gap. 'Tyres and tarmac' is a good rule and you won't get that at three feet. It gives you some 'rollback' distance from the car in front. It also means you're free to change lanes if you need to, like when a TWOC'd car drives past going the other way - you can light up and leave your line of traffic without having to wait for the car in front to move. A good gap also makes for smoother flow in the standing traffic. Merging points would be less congested if everyone left an appropriate gap. Even more important on a motorbike, as someone rolling back then will knock you over!
By all means, manage the traffic behind you and avoid causing them to concertina behind you by stopping decisively, with a reasonable gap from the car in front. But leave a good gap, it's always useful.
Otherwise, yes, decisiveness is going. This country has bred a driving majority who are as thick as two short planks and drive like they're scared of their own shadow. Even worse if you visit a town with an elderly populace...
By all means, manage the traffic behind you and avoid causing them to concertina behind you by stopping decisively, with a reasonable gap from the car in front. But leave a good gap, it's always useful.
Otherwise, yes, decisiveness is going. This country has bred a driving majority who are as thick as two short planks and drive like they're scared of their own shadow. Even worse if you visit a town with an elderly populace...
R_U_LOCAL said:
And - still in traffic - it seems there are many drivers who stop in traffic and are then suddenly caught completely by surprise when the traffic starts to move again.
Because most of them are texting/emailing etc.I (sometimes) live on Holywell Hill St Albans where there is a constant queue. As I walk up the hill I can see MOST people in the queue are studying their phone.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Yes - my bad. That should have read "4 to 5 feet".
I forgot to change it in the final edit.
Still seems needlessly close to me. There are plenty of reasons already stated why too close is bad, so what's the downside with too large a gap given a largish car is 15 foot long and they'd find it difficult to pull or force their way into a space less that that.I forgot to change it in the final edit.
Jonsv8 said:
Still seems needlessly close to me. There are plenty of reasons already stated why too close is bad, so what's the downside with too large a gap given a largish car is 15 foot long and they'd find it difficult to pull or force their way into a space less that that.
Too much of a gap makes the queue unnecessarily long. There are a number of junctions in busy towns or cities where stopping with a 10 foot gap would cause significant congestion. For instance, where you have traffic light junctions that feed busy roundabouts if only 10 cars can get through the lights nose-to-tail on every 2 minute cycle of the traffic lights and each car decides to leave a 10 foot gap you'd probably only fit 5 or 6 cars through at a time.
Four feet in front of a car should easily be enough to manoeuvre out of the stream of traffic if required.
Jonsv8 said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Yes - my bad. That should have read "4 to 5 feet".
I forgot to change it in the final edit.
Still seems needlessly close to me. There are plenty of reasons already stated why too close is bad, so what's the downside with too large a gap given a largish car is 15 foot long and they'd find it difficult to pull or force their way into a space less that that.I forgot to change it in the final edit.
AL...Ease said:
Jonsv8 said:
Still seems needlessly close to me. There are plenty of reasons already stated why too close is bad, so what's the downside with too large a gap given a largish car is 15 foot long and they'd find it difficult to pull or force their way into a space less that that.
Too much of a gap makes the queue unnecessarily long. There are a number of junctions in busy towns or cities where stopping with a 10 foot gap would cause significant congestion. For instance, where you have traffic light junctions that feed busy roundabouts if only 10 cars can get through the lights nose-to-tail on every 2 minute cycle of the traffic lights and each car decides to leave a 10 foot gap you'd probably only fit 5 or 6 cars through at a time.
Four feet in front of a car should easily be enough to manoeuvre out of the stream of traffic if required.
I disagree with the congestion. Is a tail back really any longer if 10 cars left a 10' gap v a 5' gap? Physically it would be 9 gaps of 5' longer but its still only 10 cars. Once moving you wouldn't drive with a 5' gap would you, all you're doing by pulling so close is limiting your ability to see, your ability to get past an obstruction if you need to, your ability to deal with another drivers mistake etc. and only for a shorter queue when you are stationary. 10' might be a bit excessive, but 4' (one long stride) is as close as some people parallel park, and a mother with a buggy would only just get through the gap.
Queuing at a roundabout and the car in front starts to go and then stops, if you tried to follow you've much less margin for error.
Its not Reg's view so I guess its wrong to many.
Edited by Jonsv8 on Saturday 16th May 10:54
I would love to slow down and stop once, however the crap radio often needs me to roll forwards about a foot at a time to keep reception for Radio 4.
What really bothers me when people overtake tractors is this:
option 1) drive right up close behind the tractor, they now cannot see past it, peek out, then dither, then abort, another peek, then dither again and finally go
option 2) hang back 50 yards ish, you now have a proper sightline, you now have room to accelerate and if necessary you have space to abort, also as you are going much quicker as you pass the tractor your "at risk" time is shorter.
So why do so many people use option 1
What really bothers me when people overtake tractors is this:
option 1) drive right up close behind the tractor, they now cannot see past it, peek out, then dither, then abort, another peek, then dither again and finally go
option 2) hang back 50 yards ish, you now have a proper sightline, you now have room to accelerate and if necessary you have space to abort, also as you are going much quicker as you pass the tractor your "at risk" time is shorter.
So why do so many people use option 1
I wasn't trying to start a debate on how close you should stop behind the vehicle in front. I wrote it in that way because it read a little snappier than "stop a suitable distance from the vehicle in front - far enough back so that you can see the rear tyres of the vehicle in front on the road surface. For larger vehicles a slightly longer gap is appropriate".
But of course, I put 2-3 feet in the original post by mistake.
My apologies.
For those who take my posts literally, I don't mean I stare unblinkingly at the car in front until its gone, but I don't look right and decide to go until I can see that the vehicle in front is well on its way.
But of course, I put 2-3 feet in the original post by mistake.
My apologies.
Jonsv8 said:
Queuing at a roundabout and the car in front starts to go and then stops, if you tried to follow you've much less margin for error.
This is a very common cause of rear-end shunts. So much so that when I'm second in the queue at a roundabout, I never take my eyes off the car in front until I'm certain they've set off.For those who take my posts literally, I don't mean I stare unblinkingly at the car in front until its gone, but I don't look right and decide to go until I can see that the vehicle in front is well on its way.
And to add another one to a potentially very lengthy list ... people who pull out from a side turning in front of you, leaving a marginal but just about acceptable gap but who then fail completely to accelerate, leaving you no option but to brake. Then, eventually, they find the right pedal and slowly get up to speed. Get on with it!
gdaybruce said:
And to add another one to a potentially very lengthy list ... people who pull out from a side turning in front of you, leaving a marginal but just about acceptable gap but who then fail completely to accelerate, leaving you no option but to brake. Then, eventually, they find the right pedal and slowly get up to speed. Get on with it!
I think a lot of drivers are repeatedly flabbergasted to find that their car won't accelerate from walking pace in 4th gear any better than it did every other time they tried it. Perhaps what Reg is discovering is that which many of us already know to be true.... [insert wildly exaggerated percentage here] of the British driving public may as well be completely retarded. The situations Reg describes I encounter almost every day, but I drive on the outskirts of London so perhaps I just suffer from a population density effect. That said the levels of inability and inattention are mind boggling. And its always phones.
I always handbrake and off brake pedal when I stop in traffic, apart from anything else it reduces the risk of becoming the victim of a rear end shunt because the driver behind is denied the visual cue of my brake lights going out (assuming they're paying attention!) - when I check the mirrors very often they're still there when I'm 30 yards down the road, in the texting pose. Head down, arms down, you know the phone's in their lap....
I always handbrake and off brake pedal when I stop in traffic, apart from anything else it reduces the risk of becoming the victim of a rear end shunt because the driver behind is denied the visual cue of my brake lights going out (assuming they're paying attention!) - when I check the mirrors very often they're still there when I'm 30 yards down the road, in the texting pose. Head down, arms down, you know the phone's in their lap....
goneape said:
I always handbrake and off brake pedal when I stop in traffic, apart from anything else it reduces the risk of becoming the victim of a rear end shunt because the driver behind is denied the visual cue of my brake lights going out (assuming they're paying attention!) - when I check the mirrors very often they're still there when I'm 30 yards down the road, in the texting pose. Head down, arms down, you know the phone's in their lap....
Cars with automatic handbrakes and automatic gearboxes leave the lights on when stopped in traffic.Get on with it could just as easily be applied to looking at visual clues for traffic starting to move ahead and bring prepared to go, you seem to advocate the car in front doing so but want to deny the car behind one of the clues when stopped pretty close behind you and limiting their view down the road?
Edited by Jonsv8 on Monday 18th May 06:23
Taking it further is the numptys who slow and either stop, or nearly stop at roundabouts...then look to see if they can go....drives me nuts.....when sometimes even 2,3,4 cars behind them you can see there is nothing there that is going to be "slowed down or change direction" if they simply just "Looked first"...."assess"...."decide"......"then act"
many many drivers now "act" first then look......get on with it
My learners, and then when I do fleet work are encouraged to "L.A.D.A".....(Look assess decide act) .....it surprises so many licence holders that they can actually turn their head to the right and look out of the off side front window!
many many drivers now "act" first then look......get on with it
My learners, and then when I do fleet work are encouraged to "L.A.D.A".....(Look assess decide act) .....it surprises so many licence holders that they can actually turn their head to the right and look out of the off side front window!
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff