Requested HR intervention regarding bullying but now...

[Tensioner]

I believe I have been the victim of bullying in the workplace.

I raised this with one of the HR team, and explained my position, and requested HR intervention to resolve the matter.

Following my discussion with the HR team member, I was led to believe that we would have a formal discussion with a senior HR person present to resolve any 'misunderstandings'.

However, nearly a week later I have just been handed a letter stating that I am to attend a disciplinary hearing on Thursday.

The letter states that the allegations to be discussed are my attitude and behaviour towards two senior colleagues, and my refusal to carry out a direct request.

The bullying I was subjected to was instigated in the first instance by a director who had instructed me to do something and a discussion ensued as to different approaches to the issue, as I disagreed with his propsed method - during this discussion, a second director joined in and was effectively cajoled by the first and then the pair began bullying me.

At this point I expressed concerns about bullying and that I no longer wanted to continue the discussion.

I'm a bit surprised that my initial complaint has suddenly morphed into a disciplinary hearing against me.

Do I have to accept this, given that I was the one who raised the issue of bullying with HR in the first place?

TIA.

[bitchstewie]

I guess it depends what you feel constitutes "bullying" behaviour?

[Tensioner]

bhstewie said:

I guess it depends what you feel constitutes "bullying" behaviour?

How about when you are trying to have a civil discussion, and the person concerned is repeating over and over again what they want and how they want it (at the same time treating me in a dismissive manner), and saying things like "xxxx agrees - he also thinks you should...." when xxxx is standing there passively (he's very passive and doesn't appear to have a lot of say).

That's probably not conveying the scenario very well, I guess you would have to have been there to see what I mean, with regard to body language and the tone taken etc.

I am not even a juniour staff member, and been told previouisly that I am held in high regard. Good performance reviews etc.

[Foliage]

Did you refuse? Has the end result that you were asked for been completed by you?

As for the bullying put it in writing and follow your companies grievance procedure if you haven't already done so.

In your interview say as little as possible, don't rant, make sure everything you say emphasises that you have the best interest of the company, its compliance and profits at its heart.

Edited by Foliage on Monday 18th May 16:19

[Magic919]

HR aren't really there to help you, sadly. What kind of outcome were you expecting? Did you raise a grievance?

[Dr Jekyll]

HR is there to support the senior person against the junior and maintain the fiction that the organisation as a whole can do nothing wrong.

[Foliage]

Dr Jekyll said:

HR is there to support the senior person against the junior and maintain the fiction that the organisation as a whole can do nothing wrong.

This is true BUT sort of not, HR are there to protect the company not any of its staff, its there to protect the entity, you just need to make it appear to the genius's that work in HR that you are right and that you can hurt the company via external means if you aren't treated correctly.

Its best to make it appear that you have the best interest of the company in mind, that you are trying to minimise the risk to the company etc while being put in a difficult position by a senior member of staff who has behaved unprofessionally.

Now isn't the time for revenge, now is the time for positioning and damage limitation, revenge comes later

Edited by Foliage on Monday 18th May 16:25

[Tensioner]

Foliage said:

Did you refuse? Has the end result that you were asked for been completed by you?

Yes I did, because of the bully approach, and that I felt that level heads had gone out of the window and perhaps people would see things differently the next day.

The following day I did put together a polite email explaining my position and expressed a desire to discuss further - but when I approached said director I was told 'it's not up for discussion' - and 'to just leave it for now'. Armed with the knowledge that I had already approached HR, I left things as they were.

Foliage said:

As for the bullying put it in writing and follow your companies grievance procedure if you haven't already done so.

I had thought that a disucssion with HR would suffice for this - but obviously this is my next step.

Foliage said:

In your interview say as little as possible, don't rant, make sure everything you say emphasises that you have the best interest of the company, its compliance and profits at its heart.

This is exactly how I tried to convey my thoughts to the directors, as I do indeed have concerns over money (and yes I know this shouldn't be [and isn't] my problem) - however when the project I'm undertaking is downsizing because we are not performing so well, I believe that my concerns are well founded.

Edited by Tensioner on Monday 18th May 16:26

[DMN]

Failure to follow a reasonable request can lead to disciplinary action in some companies, it does mine. So they may have grounds for one if you refused to do as you where asked. However, thats without taking into account the accusation of bullying.

To me it looks like this;

They asked you a reasonable request, you refused and then accused them of bullying.

Is that a fair assumption?

[bitchstewie]

Can't comment from a legal or employer perspective but personally I would need to be having a very bad day before I'd even consider HR.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but I'm a little curious what you honestly thought the end result would be, but perhaps that's just because my perception from your explanation sounds more one of you were asked to do something you disagreed with vs. "true" bullying.

As you say though sometimes you have to be there, it's tricky to articulate in writing sometimes.

[Foliage]

Tensioner said:

Foliage said:

Did you refuse? Has the end result that you were asked for been completed by you?

Yes I did, because of the bully approach, and that I felt that level heads had gone out of the window and perhaps people would see things differently the next day.

The following day I did put together a polite email explaining my position and expressed a desire to discuss further - but when I approached said director I was told 'it's not up for discussion' - and 'to just leave it for now'. Armed with the knowledge that I had already approached HR, I left things as they were.

So you didn't refuse, produce the email chain to HR.

[SpeckledJim]

Tensioner said:

a director who had instructed me to do something

But you didn't do it.

Tensioner said:

as I disagreed with his propsed method

Who cares?

Sounds like the Director doesn't want to be told how to do stuff, he just wants it done. His way. He's a director - he directs.

He might be right, he might be wrong. Neither are your concern.

Now you're being managed-out, because you didn't do what he pays you to do and you've rubbed him up the wrong way.

[Nezquick]

Playing devils advocate, is this not a case of you simply spitting your dummy out a bit as you were overruled by more senior staff members?

Why did you not just do as was asked and then give it the big "I told you so" once it all went wrong?

Looking at this from the outside, were you really "bullied"? I'd say probably not if you've not actually done what was asked of you.

I'm not trying to wind you up or goad you, just trying to gauge what's gone on to make you feel like you've been bullied.

[Tensioner]

Magic919 said:

HR aren't really there to help you, sadly. What kind of outcome were you expecting? Did you raise a grievance?

I expect to be treated fairly. I had no further expectations than that.

At this stage I believe I am standing in front of a loaded gun.

Dr Jekyll said:

HR is there to support the senior person against the junior and maintain the fiction that the organisation as a whole can do nothing wrong.

Based on my experience thus far, I do believe you may be right.

Foliage said:

Now isn't the time for revenge, now is the time for positioning and damage limitation, revenge comes later

It's not even about revenge for me - I just feel quite strongly that my position is correct - and I was hoping to get an unbiased view by having somebody from HR listen to 'my side'.

ETA: fixed spelling.

Edited by Tensioner on Monday 18th May 16:40

[Foliage]

DMN said:

Failure to follow a reasonable request can lead to disciplinary action in some companies, it does mine. So they may have grounds for one if you refused to do as you where asked. However, thats without taking into account the accusation of bullying.

To me it looks like this;

They asked you a reasonable request, you refused and then accused them of bullying.

Is that a fair assumption?

from how im reading it, he walked away, no refusal, re-approached the next day after tempers had calmed.

It would have been even better if he had produced the work required or made a start on it, ive done that before.

[SpeckledJim]

Being rude to you isn't bullying.

Neither is telling you what to do.

Nor is speaking on another boss' behalf.

He's your gaffer - that means you do what he says.

If you don't like the way he tells you then you still do what he says, but quietly plot his demise (in your own time!).

[Tensioner]

SpeckledJim said:

<snip>
Sounds like the Director doesn't want to be told how to do stuff, he just wants it done. His way.
<snip>

That pretty much sums him up.

Nezquick said:

Playing devils advocate, is this not a case of you simply spitting your dummy out a bit as you were overruled by more senior staff members?

No, I'm not that kind of person. There has been a history of events here (which I can't go in to here) and this is just another chapter.

Nezquick said:

Why did you not just do as was asked and then give it the big "I told you so" once it all went wrong?

It's not that kind of scenario. It's just down to cost. (3 figure sum vs £0 to do it my way)

Nezquick said:

Looking at this from the outside, were you really "bullied"? I'd say probably not if you've not actually done what was asked of you.

I was bullied when I challenged his decision. Remember that in the first instance I was given 'carte blanche' with this project (as I have in all previous projercts - and no mistakes made - no regrets by any party) so I have a clean slate. I guess he was just having a bad day.

Nezquick said:

I'm not trying to wind you up or goad you, just trying to gauge what's gone on to make you feel like you've been bullied.

Not at all. No worries. I'm just telling it like it is.

ETA: fixed spelling again.

Edited by Tensioner on Monday 18th May 16:42

[toasty]

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

Sounds like you played a losing hand and are now getting stroppy about it. Suck it up and apologise (even if you were right) or quit, you've nothing to gain here but more pain and anguish.

[DMN]

Foliage said:

DMN said:

Failure to follow a reasonable request can lead to disciplinary action in some companies, it does mine. So they may have grounds for one if you refused to do as you where asked. However, thats without taking into account the accusation of bullying.

To me it looks like this;

They asked you a reasonable request, you refused and then accused them of bullying.

Is that a fair assumption?

from how im reading it, he walked away, no refusal, re-approached the next day after tempers had calmed.

It would have been even better if he had produced the work required or made a start on it, ive done that before.

Yes I see that now, however there is still a refusal to do something the way the Director wants.

Tensioner said:

There has been a history of events here (which I can't go in to here) and this is just another chapter

Hmm, sorry OP but I think your best bet is to start job hunting. Play the game with your current employers and hope when you find something better they give you a good reference.

[bitchstewie]

I think what people are trying to get at is what is the "bullying" behaviour here?

World of difference between "I want it done that way please and it doesn't matter who's right or wrong because I'm a director" vs. "Just fking do it you stupid little st" or something most people would consider inappropriate in most environments etc.