Possible downsize from a C63 to an XF - What do I look for?
Discussion
So Mrs 911 is none too keen on the daily driver, a 2010 C63 AMG with the Performance Pack Plus.
It all comes down to Suspension really, just far too crashy in London and a move to the countryside beckons soon and one expects that roads in Sussex might be worse.
I'll probably divert some value into a station car for me so leaving about £20,000 for the replacement. We borrowed a Land Cruiser recently and my wife loved the soft suspension (surprise surprise!) but also the high up driving position. We also need some space in the back seat for our newborn and his impossibly large baby seat (We're both 6ft plus so need plenty of leg space).
I've been looking at X5s, Q5s, MLs and left myself pretty uninspired to be honest. Then someone at work chirped up about XFRs. One look on the PH classifieds and I agree, they are a good looking car, although the interior looks a little dated when compared with say the similar era C-class or X5.
Obviously I am right at the entry point for XFR ownership but I did once drive the 3.0 diesel and it was like a rocketship!
So I guess my questions are:
- V8 or diesel V6?
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
- What is the rear passenger space like?
- What is the boot space like?
- What are the must-have options?
I really appreciate anyone's inputs. I did really like the look of a blue one that I saw this afternoon. Thanks, Tom
It all comes down to Suspension really, just far too crashy in London and a move to the countryside beckons soon and one expects that roads in Sussex might be worse.
I'll probably divert some value into a station car for me so leaving about £20,000 for the replacement. We borrowed a Land Cruiser recently and my wife loved the soft suspension (surprise surprise!) but also the high up driving position. We also need some space in the back seat for our newborn and his impossibly large baby seat (We're both 6ft plus so need plenty of leg space).
I've been looking at X5s, Q5s, MLs and left myself pretty uninspired to be honest. Then someone at work chirped up about XFRs. One look on the PH classifieds and I agree, they are a good looking car, although the interior looks a little dated when compared with say the similar era C-class or X5.
Obviously I am right at the entry point for XFR ownership but I did once drive the 3.0 diesel and it was like a rocketship!
So I guess my questions are:
- V8 or diesel V6?
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
- What is the rear passenger space like?
- What is the boot space like?
- What are the must-have options?
I really appreciate anyone's inputs. I did really like the look of a blue one that I saw this afternoon. Thanks, Tom
Wow it's really coming to something when a Merc driver thinks an Jag is an old man's car 
(hey I've got both an MB & a garage full of Jags). At 35 I'd say you were a bit old to be moving to Jag ownership, I was 34 when I bought my X300, which I've still got 19 years later, they get under your skin. Old men traditionally can't drive Jags, their knees give up. Now that Jag saloons aren't quite so low slung then maybe they can - who knows.
Can't help too much with the XF, it's not a model I've got.
I'd have thought the back of the XF was roomier than your C-Class, the XF is really aimed at the same market as the MB E.
In terms of gadgets, I've got an 2010 XKR, the sat nag seems quite good, LadyB8's MB doesn't have sat nag so can't compare that, beat the 911 one I've come across. The bluetooth support on my one doesn't include playing the audio from the phone out through the HiFi, that's the one feature I miss, but then again our 2009 E-Class can't do that either. Both are limited to just the phonecall sound. The audio pick on the XKR seems good, better than the Mercs, its even OK with the top down.
Engines, well that depends on what you want. LadyB8 loves her big diesel, lots of torque so instant grunt. I'd think the Jag V6 diesel is much the same, I've not driven one so can't comment personally. Her uncle turned up in one a few weeks ago after the gear box in his 911 had died again and seemed to reckon that it went quite well. The V8 will ultimately give more stove, the XFR isn't going to be far short of your C-class.
(hey I've got both an MB & a garage full of Jags). At 35 I'd say you were a bit old to be moving to Jag ownership, I was 34 when I bought my X300, which I've still got 19 years later, they get under your skin. Old men traditionally can't drive Jags, their knees give up. Now that Jag saloons aren't quite so low slung then maybe they can - who knows.Can't help too much with the XF, it's not a model I've got.
I'd have thought the back of the XF was roomier than your C-Class, the XF is really aimed at the same market as the MB E.
In terms of gadgets, I've got an 2010 XKR, the sat nag seems quite good, LadyB8's MB doesn't have sat nag so can't compare that, beat the 911 one I've come across. The bluetooth support on my one doesn't include playing the audio from the phone out through the HiFi, that's the one feature I miss, but then again our 2009 E-Class can't do that either. Both are limited to just the phonecall sound. The audio pick on the XKR seems good, better than the Mercs, its even OK with the top down.
Engines, well that depends on what you want. LadyB8 loves her big diesel, lots of torque so instant grunt. I'd think the Jag V6 diesel is much the same, I've not driven one so can't comment personally. Her uncle turned up in one a few weeks ago after the gear box in his 911 had died again and seemed to reckon that it went quite well. The V8 will ultimately give more stove, the XFR isn't going to be far short of your C-class.
Both engines are pretty bulletproof and no major dramas that I know of. I'd have either, probably swing more towards the V8 though as I do very little mileage. Rear legroom is excellent, boot is also very large. If you get a nicely specced one in a nice colour then I wouldn't say it's old man.
If you can stretch to it and want to look like a true badman then get a black Sportbrake V6 with black wheels, they look evil!
If you can stretch to it and want to look like a true badman then get a black Sportbrake V6 with black wheels, they look evil!
Turkish91 said:
If you get a nicely specced one in a nice colour then I wouldn't say it's old man.
If you can stretch to it and want to look like a true badman then get a black Sportbrake V6 with black wheels, they look evil!
Thanks guys, useful info so far. I did see a stunning blue V8 with I guess you would call it Oatmeal colour interior. Look amazing from the outside but the silver dashboard looked very dated.If you can stretch to it and want to look like a true badman then get a black Sportbrake V6 with black wheels, they look evil!
Would love a Sportbrake but alas they don't start until a decent amount over £20k and even then you are looking at 'poverty-spec' rep cars with the weedy 163 bhp engine. Am not sure I could go from 487 to 163 horsepower :-)
We have a nice 2011 5.0 V8 in the household.
Lovely car, looks fantastic with the 20" Selena alloys. Goes extremely well, handling is sublime and the ride comfort is excellent, even on 35 section tyres. They're not run flats by the way, there's a space saver in the boot.
It has the R type interior in ivory, with piano black and aluminium trim, heated and cooled seats and lots of other goodies. It has just two buttons and a speed wheel for the cruise control, something that MB should take note of
The 5.0 AJV8 III is an absolute peach of an engine. Strong, gutsy yet refined, it has a lovely bellow when trundling around and really comes on song from 4.5k upwards. With the Spires back boxes on ours it's pure old school muscle car sound
If your bothered, fuel consumption is 15/25/35 mpg town/ave/highway.
I love it, really do
Lovely car, looks fantastic with the 20" Selena alloys. Goes extremely well, handling is sublime and the ride comfort is excellent, even on 35 section tyres. They're not run flats by the way, there's a space saver in the boot.
It has the R type interior in ivory, with piano black and aluminium trim, heated and cooled seats and lots of other goodies. It has just two buttons and a speed wheel for the cruise control, something that MB should take note of
The 5.0 AJV8 III is an absolute peach of an engine. Strong, gutsy yet refined, it has a lovely bellow when trundling around and really comes on song from 4.5k upwards. With the Spires back boxes on ours it's pure old school muscle car sound
If your bothered, fuel consumption is 15/25/35 mpg town/ave/highway.
I love it, really do
Edited by V88Dicky on Thursday 21st May 21:08
LOL.
The XF is a class larger than the C63. It's more comparible with the E-class. The interior is a treat - the Mercedes interior is very cheap looking by comparison. Mercs are common taxis and sometimes it's hard to tell the dashboard plastics from a Skoda.
The 5.0litre is a superb engine, and the handling is better than the C63 too.
You'll love it
The XF is a class larger than the C63. It's more comparible with the E-class. The interior is a treat - the Mercedes interior is very cheap looking by comparison. Mercs are common taxis and sometimes it's hard to tell the dashboard plastics from a Skoda.
The 5.0litre is a superb engine, and the handling is better than the C63 too.
You'll love it
I wondered how long it would take V88Dicky to come along here...he and I both have the XF V8 with the normally aspirated 5.0 litre engine, 384BHP, an often overlooked model. I don't think there are many other PHers with this model which, given so few were made, is not surprising. This model is the standard car for the USA market and available in the UK to special order...it was never advertised or listed by Jaguar UK.
I agree with everything Dicky says....fabulous car, unstressed engine yet has ample power when needed.
Mine is emerald fire with a barley interior. The only option it has is 19 inch Carelia wheels which give it a softer ride that the 20 inch. Otherwise it is a standard Portfolio fully loaded with everything possibly available except TVs.
I get maybe 21 mpg around town, and up to 28 mpg on long trips, say Surrey to West Cornwall and back. Yesterday mine had a service and MoT at 41,000 miles (it's almost 6 years old) cost £275 at a JMD which I consider good value.
You can easily get one for less than £20,000 (which is your budget I think) if you can find one! If you're interested I'd recommend getting it from a JMD because it will be a Jaguar approved car, would have been Jaguar serviced before sale, and come with a full I year's Jaguar warranty.
R.
I agree with everything Dicky says....fabulous car, unstressed engine yet has ample power when needed.
Mine is emerald fire with a barley interior. The only option it has is 19 inch Carelia wheels which give it a softer ride that the 20 inch. Otherwise it is a standard Portfolio fully loaded with everything possibly available except TVs.
I get maybe 21 mpg around town, and up to 28 mpg on long trips, say Surrey to West Cornwall and back. Yesterday mine had a service and MoT at 41,000 miles (it's almost 6 years old) cost £275 at a JMD which I consider good value.
You can easily get one for less than £20,000 (which is your budget I think) if you can find one! If you're interested I'd recommend getting it from a JMD because it will be a Jaguar approved car, would have been Jaguar serviced before sale, and come with a full I year's Jaguar warranty.
R.
V88Dicky said:
fuel consumption is 35 mpg highway.
I love it, really do
Always nice to hear as I simply adore the C63, I really do.I love it, really do
Edited by V88Dicky on Thursday 21st May 21:08
35 mpg sounds extraordinary, compared to the 23 on the motorway that the 6.2 I currently have does.
Not entirely sure about the Jag engine being better than the 6.2, or indeed the handling, that's probably one for another day
So is Portfolio the highest level? Do most of them come with the Bower & Wilkins sound system?
I am sure you will like the XFR. I bought it because I wanted performance with four seats (I have a 10you lad so spend a fair bit of time ferrying him and his mates about). The interior is beautiful. Given your budget you will be looking at "pre-facelift" cars (ie pre 2011. Look for the B&W stereo. In terms of standard kit they are very good. Make sure you get one with the optional rear parking camera - rear visibility is not great and the camera is very helpful. Luckily very few don't have the camera fitted.
The ride is excellent. Very comfortable at low speeds, but you get a lovely supple ride when driving enthusiastically. Although it is a very fast car (particularly if you turn sport and dynamic modes on), in standard drive mode is it very compliant and easy to drive around town. The boot is large, although the size of the opening is slightly small.
The fuel tank is too small. It was obviously designed with the more frugal diesel engines in mind. A full tank gives the 5.0L supercharged V8 a range of about 300miles.
As they say, "Space, grace and pace"
The ride is excellent. Very comfortable at low speeds, but you get a lovely supple ride when driving enthusiastically. Although it is a very fast car (particularly if you turn sport and dynamic modes on), in standard drive mode is it very compliant and easy to drive around town. The boot is large, although the size of the opening is slightly small.
The fuel tank is too small. It was obviously designed with the more frugal diesel engines in mind. A full tank gives the 5.0L supercharged V8 a range of about 300miles.
As they say, "Space, grace and pace"
Thanks Horbury, I have heard that the comfort is something else.
Would love to hear what anyone thinks about the 3.0 diesel car. I drove one when they first came out and thought it was lightning fast (but then I was young enough not know better).
I do have a naughty V8 for the weekend so I don't nescessarily need to be going for the V8, although I do prefer the slightly more aggressive look of the R.
Would love to hear what anyone thinks about the 3.0 diesel car. I drove one when they first came out and thought it was lightning fast (but then I was young enough not know better).
I do have a naughty V8 for the weekend so I don't nescessarily need to be going for the V8, although I do prefer the slightly more aggressive look of the R.
I've currently got a C63 125 edition and a 3.0 XFS portfolio. I like them both but they're very different animals. I'm in Sussex and the roads around here make the C63 a very harsh ride on 19" rims. The XF has 20" rims and the ride comfort is superb even with the 35 profile tyres.
Interior of the Jag is much nicer than the Merc, horrid noisy plastics that creak, as opposed to the portfolio's leather and suede. The screen displays on the pre-facelift Jag aren't a match for the Mercs displays and the screen can be difficult to see as it's not shielded. Screen updates are a bit on the slow side. Sound system (B&W surround) knocks the spots of the standard Merc system.
The handling is very good but it won't corner like the C63. The brakes are something else, way better than the standard C63. Steering weight is much lighter too. Biggest issue for me when making progress on twisty roads is the lack of seat bolsters, you find yourself sliding off the leather seats but at least you can get in and out without scraping the massive side bolsters in the C63.
The 3.0 diesel in S form gives 275BHP and the same torque as a standard C63. Slow it isn't but it's never going to give the smack in the back you get from the C63 when it kicks down. Engine noise isn't at all intrusive for a diesel, it's one of the quietest diesels I've driven, silky smooth and pulls strongly from 2000 round to the red line. Economy is good, around 33-35 around town, mid 40's on a run. It's got a big tank so 500 miles between fills so about twice the range of a C63.
Overall the Jag is the better car to drive on a daily basis, way better in fact. A good compromise between comfort, economy and performance. It's roomier inside, it's well made, no creaks or rattles, paint finish is better than the C-Class. Jag electrics aren't as reliable though I've had loads of niggles but so far they've all disappeared after turning the ignition off and on again. The 5.0 V8 would make a very good compromise if you could only have one car but they are rare compared to a Portfolio S.
Interior of the Jag is much nicer than the Merc, horrid noisy plastics that creak, as opposed to the portfolio's leather and suede. The screen displays on the pre-facelift Jag aren't a match for the Mercs displays and the screen can be difficult to see as it's not shielded. Screen updates are a bit on the slow side. Sound system (B&W surround) knocks the spots of the standard Merc system.
The handling is very good but it won't corner like the C63. The brakes are something else, way better than the standard C63. Steering weight is much lighter too. Biggest issue for me when making progress on twisty roads is the lack of seat bolsters, you find yourself sliding off the leather seats but at least you can get in and out without scraping the massive side bolsters in the C63.
The 3.0 diesel in S form gives 275BHP and the same torque as a standard C63. Slow it isn't but it's never going to give the smack in the back you get from the C63 when it kicks down. Engine noise isn't at all intrusive for a diesel, it's one of the quietest diesels I've driven, silky smooth and pulls strongly from 2000 round to the red line. Economy is good, around 33-35 around town, mid 40's on a run. It's got a big tank so 500 miles between fills so about twice the range of a C63.
Overall the Jag is the better car to drive on a daily basis, way better in fact. A good compromise between comfort, economy and performance. It's roomier inside, it's well made, no creaks or rattles, paint finish is better than the C-Class. Jag electrics aren't as reliable though I've had loads of niggles but so far they've all disappeared after turning the ignition off and on again. The 5.0 V8 would make a very good compromise if you could only have one car but they are rare compared to a Portfolio S.
I was in a very similar position (newborn but came from an Aston) needing the space
- V8 or diesel V6?
I went for the V6 in XFS form, plenty fast enough, good economy and more to choose from
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
Good, screen is a bit laggy on the pre face lifts.
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
Nah. It's got blingy wheels. I'm mid thirties
- What is the rear passenger space like?
Good. With the leather seats though I was worried about the baby seat damaging them easily so knocked up a cover (well my mother did). The isofix fittings are very very fiddly at first
- What is the boot space like?
Long
- What are the must-have options?
Not a lot, portfolio onwards are well specced. Wish I had the rear view camera in hindsight. It's just about impossible to retrofit.
Other stuff - Incidentally the post face lifts have an irritating stop start that kicks in when you're trying to park. They do get the 8 speed box though.
- V8 or diesel V6?
I went for the V6 in XFS form, plenty fast enough, good economy and more to choose from
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
Good, screen is a bit laggy on the pre face lifts.
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
Nah. It's got blingy wheels. I'm mid thirties
- What is the rear passenger space like?
Good. With the leather seats though I was worried about the baby seat damaging them easily so knocked up a cover (well my mother did). The isofix fittings are very very fiddly at first
- What is the boot space like?
Long
- What are the must-have options?
Not a lot, portfolio onwards are well specced. Wish I had the rear view camera in hindsight. It's just about impossible to retrofit.
Other stuff - Incidentally the post face lifts have an irritating stop start that kicks in when you're trying to park. They do get the 8 speed box though.
mike_e said:
I've currently got a C63 125 edition and a 3.0 XFS portfolio...I'm in Sussex and the roads around here make the C63 a very harsh ride on 19" rims.
Interior of the Jag is much nicer than the Merc, horrid noisy plastics that creak, as opposed to the portfolio's leather and suede...Sound system (B&W surround) knocks the spots of the standard Merc system.
The handling is very good but it won't corner like the C63. The brakes are something else, way better than the standard C63. Steering weight is much lighter too. Biggest issue for me when making progress on twisty roads is the lack of seat bolsters, you find yourself sliding off the leather seats but at least you can get in and out without scraping the massive side bolsters in the C63.
The 3.0 diesel in S form gives 275BHP and the same torque as a standard C63...Economy is good, around 33-35 around town, mid 40's on a run. It's got a big tank so 500 miles between fills so about twice the range of a C63.
Overall the Jag is the better car to drive on a daily basis, way better in fact. The 5.0 V8 would make a very good compromise if you could only have one car but they are rare compared to a Portfolio S.
Thanks, this is the most perfect review as we are moving to Sussex. Completely agree with you on the irritating noises of the C63 dash, I tend to drown it out with the Harmon Kardon but as a domestic B&W man, it's nice to see that inclusion on the jags. I hope you get the yellow speaker cones! I never expected better handling to be honest but then with Mrs and Jr there is hardly scope for enthusiastic driving in it as it will be Mrs911s daily driver. I will seriously miss the AMG seats, they are by far the most comfortable seats I have ever experienced but agreed, you wouldn't want to too fat or lumbering to climb in and out of them. Economy on the Mrs' wagon makes sense albeit Shell won't be as pleased with me. V6d vs V8 debate is still out there, I think to be honest the V6d might win as then I might be getting into the post-facelift. Thanks, this has been brilliant.Interior of the Jag is much nicer than the Merc, horrid noisy plastics that creak, as opposed to the portfolio's leather and suede...Sound system (B&W surround) knocks the spots of the standard Merc system.
The handling is very good but it won't corner like the C63. The brakes are something else, way better than the standard C63. Steering weight is much lighter too. Biggest issue for me when making progress on twisty roads is the lack of seat bolsters, you find yourself sliding off the leather seats but at least you can get in and out without scraping the massive side bolsters in the C63.
The 3.0 diesel in S form gives 275BHP and the same torque as a standard C63...Economy is good, around 33-35 around town, mid 40's on a run. It's got a big tank so 500 miles between fills so about twice the range of a C63.
Overall the Jag is the better car to drive on a daily basis, way better in fact. The 5.0 V8 would make a very good compromise if you could only have one car but they are rare compared to a Portfolio S.
DangerMonkey said:
I was in a very similar position (newborn but came from an Aston) needing the space
- V8 or diesel V6?
I went for the V6 in XFS form, plenty fast enough, good economy and more to choose from
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
Good, screen is a bit laggy on the pre face lifts.
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
Nah. It's got blingy wheels. I'm mid thirties
- What is the rear passenger space like?
Good. With the leather seats though I was worried about the baby seat damaging them easily so knocked up a cover (well my mother did). The isofix fittings are very very fiddly at first
- What is the boot space like?
Long
- What are the must-have options?
Not a lot, portfolio onwards are well specced. Wish I had the rear view camera in hindsight. It's just about impossible to retrofit.
Other stuff - Incidentally the post face lifts have an irritating stop start that kicks in when you're trying to park. They do get the 8 speed box though.
Another great review, thanks. So do all cars have Bluetooth and Phone Prep, etc? What is the highest model line, do they do an R-line or Sport-line or anything like that?- V8 or diesel V6?
I went for the V6 in XFS form, plenty fast enough, good economy and more to choose from
- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
Good, screen is a bit laggy on the pre face lifts.
- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
Nah. It's got blingy wheels. I'm mid thirties
- What is the rear passenger space like?
Good. With the leather seats though I was worried about the baby seat damaging them easily so knocked up a cover (well my mother did). The isofix fittings are very very fiddly at first
- What is the boot space like?
Long
- What are the must-have options?
Not a lot, portfolio onwards are well specced. Wish I had the rear view camera in hindsight. It's just about impossible to retrofit.
Other stuff - Incidentally the post face lifts have an irritating stop start that kicks in when you're trying to park. They do get the 8 speed box though.
The spec levels go business -> Luxury -> premium Luxury -> portfolio. So a 2.2 Portfolio would have a better spec than a V6 Luxury
You can get an idea of the car by doenloading the older manuals from here
http://www.jaguar.co.uk/quality-section/owners/han...
If you want a copy of an old specification sheet, PM me and I can post one on.
XFR / XFR-S have portfolio levels of trim with a bit extra. The seats in those versions are well bolstered.
The V6 Diesel (particularly in the "S") version has plenty of pulling power and in all honesty on the public highway will be entertaining enough. Try using all the power of the XFR and you reach licence losing speeds within 3-4 seconds.
You can get an idea of the car by doenloading the older manuals from here
http://www.jaguar.co.uk/quality-section/owners/han...
If you want a copy of an old specification sheet, PM me and I can post one on.
XFR / XFR-S have portfolio levels of trim with a bit extra. The seats in those versions are well bolstered.
The V6 Diesel (particularly in the "S") version has plenty of pulling power and in all honesty on the public highway will be entertaining enough. Try using all the power of the XFR and you reach licence losing speeds within 3-4 seconds.
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