Tight right hand bends a bitch to get right!

[Esceptico]

Should have been revising for exams next week...but the sun was out and I hadn't had a proper ride in days..and trying to finish off my DRCs before swapping to M7 RRs...

So instead of revising economics I was practicing bends instead! After such a long time not biking it has taken a while to build up confidence. Trying to get back into the advanced riding approach of (where possible) keep to the middle of the road on left hand bends, to the left on right hand bends and use the vanishing point to judge the speed in the bend and when to accelerate. Not going too badly except for tight right hand bends. Finding it very difficult to trust myself to ride round the outside of the bend (near the kerb) and also very hard to look to the right rather than stare straight ahead. Finding that at best I am in the middle of my lane. Too close to the White line, especially went lent over.

Apart from keep practicing any tips?

PS some very nice roads around Finchingfield in Essex. And pretty much had them to myself!

[sc0tt]

Local Lad

Don't ask me about the bends around finchingfield though.

[Dr Jekyll]

Don't get too hung up on a left hand approach to a right hand bend. There is usually all kinds of crap next to the curb and if you're concentrating on avoiding this and not hitting the curb instead of looking to the right you're worse off than if you stayed further out.

[Dr Jekyll]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I disagree with this bit. If you approach on the outside of the bend until you can see round it, then cut in towards the inside you are insuring against running wide. It's counter intuitive but turning in late rather than early actually reduces the chance of running dangerously wide.

Another factor on a right hander is that turning in early and cutting the corner feels like a short cut. So if you're in a hurry, perhaps trying to keep up with another bike, you do need extra concentration to avoid it.

[dukeboy749r]

Esceptico said:

Should have been revising for exams next week...but the sun was out and I hadn't had a proper ride in days..and trying to finish off my DRCs before swapping to M7 RRs...

So instead of revising economics I was practicing bends instead! After such a long time not biking it has taken a while to build up confidence. Trying to get back into the advanced riding approach of (where possible) keep to the middle of the road on left hand bends, to the left on right hand bends and use the vanishing point to judge the speed in the bend and when to accelerate. Not going too badly except for tight right hand bends. Finding it very difficult to trust myself to ride round the outside of the bend (near the kerb) and also very hard to look to the right rather than stare straight ahead. Finding that at best I am in the middle of my lane. Too close to the White line, especially went lent over.

Apart from keep practicing any tips?

PS some very nice roads around Finchingfield in Essex. And pretty much had them to myself!

I rode those same routes on Sunday and one or two bends still catch me out.

On the road though, down country lanes, you just know what is coming, so despite wishing I was going faster, coming home after a ride wins every time.

[Esceptico]

Some interesting views.

My base position would be three quarters of the way between the curb and the centre line but move around all the time.

When I do manage to get a right hand bend right it does feel better and also feels quicker because being further over to the left I can get it back upright and on the power again more quickly. Could be deluding myself of course as only a feeling. Perhaps more importantly, when I get it right it feels safer and that I am more in control.

[FazerBoy]

One of the reasons that people find right hand bends more difficult is that when one stays out to the left hand side of the road until one sees the vanishing point (which I think is the correct approach) then the road camber is working against you rather than helping, so that the grip can be reduced.

[Momentofmadness]

I'm not sure what you're riding but on my GSXR, because of the riding position and my lack of ability I nearly always add a bit of throttle as I push the right bar to get it tipped in which is wrong... steering should be finished before the trottle is applied.

With left hand bends, I don't apply any throttle inadvertently and so the bike tips in nicely

Hope this makes sense

[darkyoung1000]

Are you left handed? A genuine question as it can affect your comfort with 'wrong-handed' bends.

Other than that, keep with the bike safe good practice and keep thinking ahead as to your position on the RH bend before you get there. I keep telling myself this every time I ride the Buttercrambe to Malton road!

Cheers,
Tom

[Gusto]

I think I said it before on another thread; do you have the same issue in your car? I have a sweeping flat 80deg bend near my house which is lovely coming at it to turn left, but I really have to think about it turning right, car or bike as I often cut the first part of it in the car. I'm not sure if mine is an eyesight issue or more fundamental (Very very right eye dominant).

[Esceptico]

darkyoung1000 said:

Are you left handed? A genuine question as it can affect your comfort with 'wrong-handed' bends.

Other than that, keep with the bike safe good practice and keep thinking ahead as to your position on the RH bend before you get there. I keep telling myself this every time I ride the Buttercrambe to Malton road!

Cheers,
Tom

I'm right handed. Thinking about it I do feel more comfortable with left hand bends, although I am used to leaning over more on the right, because of roundabouts plus you run clockwise on most (all?) tracks and there are usually more right hand bends.

Safety is the key. Got to resist the temptation to go in too quick. Much better to come out the corner every time thinking you could have gone in faster than have the opposite experience even once (at least on the road where you don't have nice run off areas, kitty litter and no trees, on-coming traffic etc).

[Esceptico]

Gusto said:

I think I said it before on another thread; do you have the same issue in your car? I have a sweeping flat 80deg bend near my house which is lovely coming at it to turn left, but I really have to think about it turning right, car or bike as I often cut the first part of it in the car. I'm not sure if mine is an eyesight issue or more fundamental (Very very right eye dominant).

I do find the same problem in the car as well. Left hand bends I am happy to drive fully on the other side of the road but find it much more difficult to keep to the left on right hand bends. But in a car I suppose you have the added issue of the seat being on the right (in RHD) and it is easier to be more confident of placing the car in left hand bends as you are sitting closer to the wheels on the right. But maybe it is also because I am right handed. Interesting. Although I lived for many years on the continent and there the left hand bends were the problem. I think perhaps it is subconscious in that you know that if you are on a left hand bend (in the UK) and do drift wide you have the other carriageway (as long as there is no on-coming traffic) but with a right hand bend if you go wide you are off the road.

[FazerBoy]

H

Esceptico said:

I do find the same problem in the car as well. Left hand bends I am happy to drive fully on the other side of the road but find it much more difficult to keep to the left on right hand bends. But in a car I suppose you have the added issue of the seat being on the right (in RHD) and it is easier to be more confident of placing the car in left hand bends as you are sitting closer to the wheels on the right. But maybe it is also because I am right handed. Interesting. Although I lived for many years on the continent and there the left hand bends were the problem. I think perhaps it is subconscious in that you know that if you are on a left hand bend (in the UK) and do drift wide you have the other carriageway (as long as there is no on-coming traffic) but with a right hand bend if you go wide you are off the road.

Aha, you have given us a clue there - if left-hand bends were a problem on the continent then this is to do with the camber of the road, as I stated above. (Camber is where most roads are slightly higher in the middle and slope away at the sides, to allow water to drain).

In the UK, when you take a left-hand bend, your tyre is pressing into the raised part of the road, and this is similar to riding on banking where the forces involved are giving you more grip. Conversely, when you take a right-hand bend (or a left-hand bend on the Continent) the opposite applies.

Somebody more knowledgable regarding the physics involved will come along and explain it properly, but I believe that this is the issue.

[black-k1]

My 1st rule of riding on the road - if you can't see it you can't deal with it.

Anything that gives more/better visibility without increasing risk is worth doing so moving to far left for right handers is a definite yes. How far you move over is defined by the state of the surface etc.

Remember that your speed through the bend is not defined by how far you can lean the bike over, but by your ability to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

If you can see all the way through the bend on the approach then shifting your bum on the seat to make it easier to focus on the exit will help in making the whole bend smoother and faster and will, surprisingly, help with getting the approach speed right.

[upsidedownmark]

Kinda agree with that - unless it's quite a short corner, on road I will stay 'out' until I can see the exit, only then cut up towards the 'inside'. That way you have options if it tightens / etc. If you're on the apex/inside line and it tightens, very easy to get thrown out wide on the exit. If it's open and sighted, more 'racing line', sure

There was a vid kicking around here of some numpty who crashed / nearly went head on into a car, then got prosecuted on the basis of his own youtube footage. That as I recall was a perfect example of being turned in far far too soon and getting caught out (as well as being a complete t1t).

[Gusto]

I found ignoring the right side of the road on right-handers has helped in both car and on bike, just imagine the white line as the edge of the road and look over that, rather than through the lane if that makes any sense. I think its a positioning thing more than anything else.

[fergus]

Turn in as late as you can. Turning in too early is a common trait and leaves you with few options if the road tightens mid bend or if you need to take avoiding action. As already mentioned look through the bend, not at it.

[jackh707]

Tight right handers with poor visibility you just have to take a little more easy on the road, if you are really cranked over you have a bad line and a vehicle coming the opposite way is a little wide, the first thing it's gonna hit is your head.



It all changes on open road with good visibility like moorland, but then you use all of the road when it's safe anyway.

[CarsOrBikes]

I have a similar issue with right handers, only helped with not looking at the stuff on the left as the road bends, and telling myself to focus on the white line or centre of the road. Turning left you see naturally all the stuff there or kerb etc from the outside of the turn. On a right the stuff on the left is in front of you more and I think it takes your vision.

I don't quite agree with the lack of throttle until steering is complete, as the wheel gets smaller as soon as it is leant, so depending on the turn it's a simultaneous exercise, increasing the speed of the outside of the rim while turning. If you don't you're effectively braking the rear wheel in every bend, again corner dependent.

What matters most, is safety and security in any turn. Do what you're doing now, just avert your eyes to the right, where they should be, looking where you want to be?

Only my2p