engines - crappiest of them all ?

[dbdb]

The Rover V8 is an old engine, but it is not a bad engine. The Stag's V8 had some serious issues. I suppose its saving grace is that it sounds fantastic.

The Jaguar V12 offered incredible performance and power in the 1970s. The XJ-S was one of the fastest cars you could buy back then - as was the V12 engnied XJ12 saloon, which had incredible performance and road ability for its age and type. The V12 was hampered by an old fashioned transmission until it was enlarged to six litres, but you can hardly blame the engine for that.

[Veeayt]

Every single Soviet engine is crap

[TheFinners]

framerateuk said:

Tried the 1.2 Ecotec? All of the above, but worse in every way.

The Vauxhall 2.0L Diesel in the Insignia is a woeful engine too. Plenty of go, but very uncivilized and noisy.

My neighbours used to have one, was unbelievably loud and clattery when they started it up in the mornings, oddly even more so than the Vauxhall Combo van my other neighbour had for work!

[SuperHangOn]

dbdb said:

The Rover V8 is an old engine, but it is not a bad engine. The Stag's V8 had some serious issues. I suppose its saving grace is that it sounds fantastic.

I would say the 4.2, 4.0 and 4.6's were very bad. Notorious for cracked blocks/cylinder liners rendering the block itself scrap. It was also hopelessly outdated. Why BMW didn't make it a priority to shoehorn the 4.4 M62 into the P38 and DII I will never know.

Edited by SuperHangOn on Friday 22 May 18:07

[ChemicalChaos]

SuperHangOn said:

dbdb said:

The Rover V8 is an old engine, but it is not a bad engine. The Stag's V8 had some serious issues. I suppose its saving grace is that it sounds fantastic.

I would say the 4.2, 4.0 and 4.6's were very bad. Notorious for cracked blocks/cylinder liners rendering the block itself scrap. It was also hopelessly outdated. Why BMW didn't make it a priority to shoehorn the 4.4 M62 into the P38 and DII I will never know.

Edited by SuperHangOn on Friday 22 May 18:07

probably because of the extremely extensive reworking it would have taken of all the engine mounts, and suitable gearboxes etc and changes to interior. they tried experimenting with a BMW V12 in the P38 for a forthcoming facelift, but it was such a hassle that in the end, the new RR development was accelerated and the L322 launched early, rather than releasing a facelifted P38 with new engines.

In 3.5 and 3.9 form the Rover V8 was a fantastic engine - light, powerful, and great sounding.

Edited by ChemicalChaos on Friday 22 May 18:53

[Drive Blind]

white_goodman said:

The 1.4 "Hi-Torque" engine in my second car, a mk3.5 Astra. I'm not sure what the "Hi-Torque" moniker referred to, more torque than power? Coming from a 1.1 (Cinquecento Sporting), as a naive youngster, I thought a 1.4 Astra would be a proper speed machine but it really wasn't. Gutless and got embarassed by my friend in his B-reg 1.1 Fiesta. Also, the only car that I have ever driven, which was faster in 4th than 5th gear!

this is a classic example of trying to make the poverty spec trim/engine sound good. It was a 60bhp 1.4 that vauxhall claimed was tuned for low down torque. Perfect for doddling about town so they claimed.

The proper 1.4 was the 82bhp version. Would be quite nippy in an Nova SRi as many boy racers would testify.

[crostonian]

I'd say any early water cooled flat 6 Porsche engine, anything put in a TVR from 1990 that wasn't built by Rover or Ford, early BMW 645s, E46 N42 BMW 316 and 318s, any 4 cylinder Japanese diesels from 2001 to 2012,the first VW 1.4 TSi engines. These are all engines that I know regularly fail at low miles despite being well looked after.

[itcaptainslow]

Limpet said:

itcaptainslow said:

Limpet said:

itcaptainslow said:

pigeonskirt said:

Rover K series??

Why?

I don't think it's the worst, but it's a bit crap. How many otherwise tidy, well cared for Rovers end up in scrapyards or in the classifieds as spares or repair because of HGF?

I accept that the K is very innovative, and has lots of positive attributes, but it has this massive, fundamental issue that you can't really overlook if you plan to own one for any period of time.

It perplexes me as it's an issue which can be sorted comparatively cheaply and permanently. Other than the HGF issue, it's lightweight, tuneable, economical and produces decent power even in standard trim. Likes revs and sounds good too.

I'd say the HGF problem is fairly minor compared to issues other modern engines have!

I completely agree on the positive attributes you list, and it is a remarkable engine in many ways. However, I'm not sure I agree this is easily sorted permanently. Yes, some K's get a relatively cheap head gasket replacement and run on without issues. But mmny fail repeatedly, even with MLS gasket sets and competent mechanical labour.

Part of the problem is that I don't believe anyone has ever definitively pinned down the K series head gasket issues to one particular cause. I've read compelling cases for plastic dowels, thermostat location, non MLS gasket kits, excessively hard driving when cold (increasing thermal shock when the 'stat opens), coolant running low through neglect, mechanical incompetence during the repair, and poor quality head castings. It's a basket case of an engine from this point of view.

Well at least three of those aren't the engine's fault...they do require a bit of care & attention, which is what I've given all of the K's that I've owned. If I've had to replace the head gasket, the repair done properly with good quality parts, checking what needs to be checked in the course of the work (liner heights, cylinder head hardness & straightness) has lasted.

Certainly they don't tolerate abuse like some engines do (so I wouldn't say it's the greatest in line four to be fair), but if they're looked after, they're long lived, powerful, zesty and economical. I love the character and power of the K in my Elise, and my Dad loves the fuel economy and smooth drive of the K in his 25 runabout.

[iva cosworth]

Ford Pinto OHC engine.

Ford...."Let's not provide enough lubrication for the camshaft,we'll sell lot of camshafts in 2 years time"

It did become the YB later though.

[petrolsniffer]

Veeayt said:

Every single Soviet engine is crap

Crap in what way they're agricultural yes but they do well in harsh russian winters

[crostonian]

petrolsniffer said:

Veeayt said:

Every single Soviet engine is crap

Crap in what way they're agricultural yes but they do well in harsh russian winters

They do exactly what they are designed to do which in my eyes puts them at the top end of the scale.

[Crosswise]

The Vauxhall 1.4 Hi-Torq seems to be getting quite a lot of mentions here, if it wasn't for the Ford CVH it would definitely be a winner.

We had a Corsa B with that engine for a number of years and it really is a hopeless engine, it has no more torque then the 16v so should really be called the 1.4 Low-Power. It is just a hopeless engine, it's not economical as I learnt driving it after a V6, I was expecting a reduction in fuel costs, I didn't, I got 14.7mpg from a tank and that wasn't even city driving.

I can't believe people are nominating the Jag V12, horrendous fuel economy aside, it was a fantastic engine and was developed well throughout it's life.

[Halmyre]

dbdb said:

The Rover V8 is an old engine, but it is not a bad engine. The Stag's V8 had some serious issues. I suppose its saving grace is that it sounds fantastic.

The Jaguar V12 offered incredible performance and power in the 1970s. The XJ-S was one of the fastest cars you could buy back then - as was the V12 engnied XJ12 saloon, which had incredible performance and road ability for its age and type. The V12 was hampered by an old fashioned transmission until it was enlarged to six litres, but you can hardly blame the engine for that.

Forgot to mention, also won the European Touring Car Championship, and Le Mans, twice.

[Miglia 888]

Totally agree on these:
Ford Essex V4
Simca Poissy I4
Ford CVH I4

I'd also suggest a rough & thirsty V6 found in various Peugeot Renault and Volvo barges:
PRV V6

[66mpg]

A definite yes for the CVH - a design that promised much but delivered so little.


Dishonourable mentions also to Mk1 Megane 1.4 - flat and gutless
Rover 420SD - non turbo version of more common turbo diesel - zero acceleration at 65 in fifth, need to take third if balked on motorway.
1.6 8V Mk3 Astra - 1.4 16v so much better.

[Chris944_S2]

Veeayt said:

Every single Soviet engine is crap

Yaroslavl engines won more Dakar rallies in truck category than any other

[newoldfart]

Zad said:

The late 1980s Ford 1.3 OHV was probably the Kent derived Valencia unit, but there were also CVHs too. At least on the OHV you could fix the tappets. No such luxury with the CVH. Horrible uncharismatic things, but at least those engines worked though, unlike contemporary Leyland / Rover engines which seemed to be designed with 1940s technology and oil burning from day 1.

if you are thinking of the old (a)and (b) series ohv engines then they were 1940s technology possibly even earlier

[pigeonskirt]

wankel rotary engine as fitted in Mazda RX7's and RX8's. That's gotta be a contender surely? Full of promise but most fail with compression issues and need rebuilding.

[Derek Chevalier]

BMW N53 - sounded like a diesel, and with all the robustness of a mid 80s slice of Italian Exotica

[sjabrown]

A recent engine - the Fiat 1.3 multijet member of the JTD family. Noisy, gruff, little torque.