employment solicitor / contracts specialist
Discussion
Maybe a long shot but... are there any employment solicitors or contracts specialists on here that could urgently review a couple of restrictive covenants within my employment contract.... See my other thread here for a bit of background.
I'm happy to pay, but it's become rather urgent now. At this stage, all I'd need is a "no, it's not enforceable" or a "yes it's enforceable but...." if the latter then obviously I'd need to look deeper into my options.
Thank you.
I'm happy to pay, but it's become rather urgent now. At this stage, all I'd need is a "no, it's not enforceable" or a "yes it's enforceable but...." if the latter then obviously I'd need to look deeper into my options.
Thank you.
I'm not a solicitor, however I did study contract and employment law as part of my degree many moons ago.
As an employer I keep abreast of these things. One such source of information was Breadvan72 who unfortunately doesn't post on here any more. He is a barrister and this is one of his specialisations, and of those specialisations he is at the cutting edge.
I would wholeheartedly recommend him. However, his advice I gather will not be cheap.
From what BV mentioned on earlier threads, my understanding of reading your contract on the other threat would be that it is potentially enforceable.
In answer to your direct question, "Is this enforceable?" I would doubt if any legal professional will guarantee against it. Even on the small claims level, and simple cases, good solicitors won't offer any guarantees, as in litigation you are not in control of the other party, of the Judge, who may very well see things a different way - rightly or wrongly!
My gut feeling is that if you are looking for a solicitor to give you a cast iron guarantee you won't be sued or an injunction taken out against you, that gaining legal advice is recommended, but probably won't get you the answer you want.
As an employer I keep abreast of these things. One such source of information was Breadvan72 who unfortunately doesn't post on here any more. He is a barrister and this is one of his specialisations, and of those specialisations he is at the cutting edge.
I would wholeheartedly recommend him. However, his advice I gather will not be cheap.
From what BV mentioned on earlier threads, my understanding of reading your contract on the other threat would be that it is potentially enforceable.
In answer to your direct question, "Is this enforceable?" I would doubt if any legal professional will guarantee against it. Even on the small claims level, and simple cases, good solicitors won't offer any guarantees, as in litigation you are not in control of the other party, of the Judge, who may very well see things a different way - rightly or wrongly!
My gut feeling is that if you are looking for a solicitor to give you a cast iron guarantee you won't be sued or an injunction taken out against you, that gaining legal advice is recommended, but probably won't get you the answer you want.
Yes, I know BV well and you're right I suspect that he will be (well) out of my price range....
when I ask if it was enforceable (paying particular attention to clause C as that's the one I'd potentially fall foul of) I was thinking that someone could point out a glaring mistake like it not referring to a specific territory or something like that. I'm not after an iron clad, black/ white answer, more something like "they'd have a hard case enforcing it if it did go to litigation because...." - hopefully that makes sense??
when I ask if it was enforceable (paying particular attention to clause C as that's the one I'd potentially fall foul of) I was thinking that someone could point out a glaring mistake like it not referring to a specific territory or something like that. I'm not after an iron clad, black/ white answer, more something like "they'd have a hard case enforcing it if it did go to litigation because...." - hopefully that makes sense??
I can give you further information along with case law if you wish but you would need to be a client to do so.
However, I can say as Justin has said, it is VERY difficult to give a straight answer in this kind of situation and if you read the case law you will see why.
ETA - I did already offer a preliminary view that it was rather wide ranging....
However, I can say as Justin has said, it is VERY difficult to give a straight answer in this kind of situation and if you read the case law you will see why.
ETA - I did already offer a preliminary view that it was rather wide ranging....
Jasandjules said:
I can give you further information along with case law if you wish but you would need to be a client to do so.
However, I can say as Justin has said, it is VERY difficult to give a straight answer in this kind of situation and if you read the case law you will see why.
ETA - I did already offer a preliminary view that it was rather wide ranging....
Sorry, I might have missed that comment as yours, BV's etc are the usual suspects I was looking for to answer. However, I can say as Justin has said, it is VERY difficult to give a straight answer in this kind of situation and if you read the case law you will see why.
ETA - I did already offer a preliminary view that it was rather wide ranging....
Thank you for spending the time to go over it, just to be clear I'm NOT looking for free advice. As I said, I'm happy to pay for someone to go over the contract and give me realistic advice and options
Have you discussed it with the potential employer, presumably they will be fairly aware such a clause is likely to exist, and even if they are not you are probably going to have to disclose it at some point.
Even if an solicitor tells you it's unenforceable don't worry about it, it still might be a risk the new employer doesn't want to be associated with, that isn't something you want to find out the day you are meant to start working for them.
If they are the ones trying to recruit you, see what thier thoughts on it are, they might be willing to start you on gardening leave and wait it out, or provide some form of indemnity.
Even if an solicitor tells you it's unenforceable don't worry about it, it still might be a risk the new employer doesn't want to be associated with, that isn't something you want to find out the day you are meant to start working for them.
If they are the ones trying to recruit you, see what thier thoughts on it are, they might be willing to start you on gardening leave and wait it out, or provide some form of indemnity.
SickFish said:
At this stage, all I'd need is a "no, it's not enforceable" or a "yes it's enforceable but...." if the latter then obviously I'd need to look deeper into my options.
My next door neighbour moved companies at a fairly high level and his old company sought to enforce a 12mth break before working for a competitor in his contract.At first his new employer wanted to take on his old employer, but when legal fees quickly got to £40K and no-one would give a straight answer (nothing in law is black and white) his new company caved in and he took 12mths off.
Sheepshanks said:
SickFish said:
At this stage, all I'd need is a "no, it's not enforceable" or a "yes it's enforceable but...." if the latter then obviously I'd need to look deeper into my options.
My next door neighbour moved companies at a fairly high level and his old company sought to enforce a 12mth break before working for a competitor in his contract.At first his new employer wanted to take on his old employer, but when legal fees quickly got to £40K and no-one would give a straight answer (nothing in law is black and white) his new company caved in and he took 12mths off.
I'm not high up within the company in the slightest....
I no lawyer and can only tell you that several of us deserted a sinking ship having had similar terms in our contracts.
Being relatively junior nothing was done, not even to the guy who literally took his customers with him.
I think a huge part of this will be if you are senior enough for them to care. Half the sales team seem to revolve through the competitors in a fairly small field and they would be the most likely to have to sit out gardening leave.
How long to learn your new employer's products? Might be relevant if you move to a non customer facing role for six months while your leads go cold.
Being relatively junior nothing was done, not even to the guy who literally took his customers with him.
I think a huge part of this will be if you are senior enough for them to care. Half the sales team seem to revolve through the competitors in a fairly small field and they would be the most likely to have to sit out gardening leave.
How long to learn your new employer's products? Might be relevant if you move to a non customer facing role for six months while your leads go cold.
pboyall said:
Being relatively junior nothing was done, not even to the guy who literally took his customers with him.
A lot can depend on the employer. Some will go after people no matter what, just to make a point and ensure others don't do the same next time. Others will do nothing. I would have thought that C and D are too broad to be enforceable.
( But IANBV - I am not BreadVan72
)
To me they do not limit things to anything specific to your current employer. In effect they attempt to prevent you from working in the same industry (Clause C) and also to prevent you working in any industry providing services to a set of clients(clause D).
If a multinational were a client for your existing employer using some small niche product, clause D would prevent you working for any company which also supplies the same multinational - with no restriction to market sector.
If your current employer watered the plants at a branch of HSBC, clause D would prevent you being an employee of a supplier of office stationery to HSBC.
Of course the exact details of what you are considering will matter.
Another question would be - are you aware of anyone else who has previously moved from your company in a similar way - what happened to them?
( But IANBV - I am not BreadVan72
)To me they do not limit things to anything specific to your current employer. In effect they attempt to prevent you from working in the same industry (Clause C) and also to prevent you working in any industry providing services to a set of clients(clause D).
If a multinational were a client for your existing employer using some small niche product, clause D would prevent you working for any company which also supplies the same multinational - with no restriction to market sector.
If your current employer watered the plants at a branch of HSBC, clause D would prevent you being an employee of a supplier of office stationery to HSBC.
Of course the exact details of what you are considering will matter.
Another question would be - are you aware of anyone else who has previously moved from your company in a similar way - what happened to them?
Edited by TooLateForAName on Monday 25th May 12:58
TooLateForAName said:
I would have thought that C and D are too broad to be enforceable.
( But IANBV - I am not BreadVan72 )
To me they do not limit things to anything specific to your current employer. In effect they attempt to prevent you from working in the same industry (Clause C) and also to prevent you working in any industry providing services to a set of clients(clause D).
If a multinational were a client for your existing employer using some small niche product, clause D would prevent you working for any company which also supplies the same multinational - with no restriction to market sector.
If your current employer watered the plants at a branch of HSBC, clause D would prevent you being an employee of a supplier of office stationery to HSBC.
Of course the exact details of what you are considering will matter.
Another question would be - are you aware of anyone else who has previously moved from your company in a similar way - what happened to them?
Hmmm interesting, thanks for your thoughts.( But IANBV - I am not BreadVan72
)To me they do not limit things to anything specific to your current employer. In effect they attempt to prevent you from working in the same industry (Clause C) and also to prevent you working in any industry providing services to a set of clients(clause D).
If a multinational were a client for your existing employer using some small niche product, clause D would prevent you working for any company which also supplies the same multinational - with no restriction to market sector.
If your current employer watered the plants at a branch of HSBC, clause D would prevent you being an employee of a supplier of office stationery to HSBC.
Of course the exact details of what you are considering will matter.
Another question would be - are you aware of anyone else who has previously moved from your company in a similar way - what happened to them?
Edited by TooLateForAName on Monday 25th May 12:58
I'm not aware of people leaving to go to a competitor, but I know for a fact people have been poached by my current employer from other competitors
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